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do you agree with Women being Priests/Ministers
yes
80%
 80%  [ 20 ]
no
20%
 20%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 25

Author Message
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Women Priests/ministers Yah or Nay Reply with quote

Interesting article in the STAR which I surprisingly agree with.
http://www.thestar.com/living/article/436334

Sexist churches not Jesus' doing

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that, had we not been in church at the time, my grandmother would have smacked me one when I hissed something like, "If they don't allow women to be ordained, then how come the priests are all wearing dresses?''
I would have been around 12 or so, doing penance for asking too many questions that could not be answered in the basement Sunday school about the edict against altar girls, loaves and fishes, burning bushes and, most especially, the virgin birth.
Well, I wasn't really doing penance since I was not baptized a Catholic but Greek Orthodox, and officially we don't do penance.
Besides, I didn't feel too penitent about annoying my Sunday school teacher who struck me as a female fifth columnist for buying into all that misogynistic stuff that prevented menstruating women from taking communion or accepting Antithiron, the blessed bread, from the priests' hands.
Unclean!
When I protested – hadn't the priests heard of Tampax? – I got tossed and condemned to sit upstairs with my Yiayia in the front pew where I endured hours of Byzantine mumbo-jumbo and breathe sickening incense.
My grandmother was a most formidable woman who, in 1910, pregnant, took 48 days to travel from her mountain village on the island of Naxos to Canada where, as a young widow in the Depression, raised 10 kids with an iron fist.
It always baffled me why she was such a fierce defender of the Church.
Not only that but, as one of the first Greek women to have landed in Montreal, she was instrumental in founding the community's first parish, right next door to her house.
Not that I ever begrudged her her faith. It was her unquestioning acceptance of the sexism that I could not fathom.
To this day, the Greek Church shuts women out.
And so, except for the usual family hatching, matching and dispatching, I have no plans to darken its doors.
All this was on my mind last week, when the Vatican decreed that any and all Catholic women priests, as well as, get this, the bishops who ordained them, would automatically be excommunicated, i.e., forbidden to receive the sacraments or participate in public worship.
Women, whacked again.
Monsignor Angelo Amato of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said the Vatican "does not feel authorized to change the will of its founder Jesus Christ."
This from a Church that does little more than pray for the pedophiles in its priesthood.
As for women, doesn't the Bible say: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus?" (Galatians 3:28)
Clearly, some are more one-with-the-Lord than others.
And yet there is plenty of theological research arguing that Jesus included women among his disciples. Plus, according to the comprehensive WomenPriests.org, most Catholic scholars agree with the ordination of women on the grounds that's there's a historical foundation for it.
For example, the Last Supper, in fact a Passover Seder, would have, as a matter of course, included the women who prepared it. It was there that Jesus established the Apostles as priests, and there is nothing to indicate that he shut women out.
Another example: There's a documented trail of names of female deacons, dating back to the Church's beginnings and continuing through some 900 years.
Nay, verily I say unto you, there is no case at all to be made for Jesus Christ being as sexist as the Church would have us believe. All indications are the opposite: he was far more feminist than the society to which he preached.
But papal bull finds otherwise.
And so the priests are hiding behind their own gilded skirts, just as I suspected when I was a girl.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
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votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind having a female lead a church, however, I don't like how people are giving the Catholics a hard time over this.

If you don't agree with the Catholics not allowing female priests, then don't join that church. There are plenty of other churches that allow female ministers.

Secondly, why is the Catholic church not allowing female priest such a focus of attention, while other religions (ex, Islam) don't allow it either? In fact, as is sometimes the case with Islam, women aren't even allowed to sit in the same room as the men and the religious leader, let a lone lead the group themselves.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that the Catholic religion has always been about keeping women down. Well not just women, most everyone that wouldn't conform to the doctines. I can't even imagine how many people were burnt at the stake turning the Inquisition. But like you said there are prenty that allow women ministers. Have any of you read the Gospel of Mary found amongst the dead sea scrolls? She was a very powerful member of the church. Some believe she was married to Jesus. One book I read said that Jesus was an essene. A defender of the truth at all costs.
Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 857
Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5
votes: 10
Location: Manitoba

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully and wholeheartedly support gender equality in the Church and in my religious beliefs.

I know many Christians who have the traditional belief of the woman stays home, nurtures the children, the father makes the money and is the head of the family, and I respect that, but I don't believe that should be the way it "must" be.

Woman priests are fine in my book, and could be a step up for many churches.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Catholics get to do what they want. Period. None of the opinions here matter. Period.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
I believe that the Catholic religion has always been about keeping women down. Well not just women, most everyone that wouldn't conform to the doctines. I can't even imagine how many people were burnt at the stake turning the Inquisition. But like you said there are prenty that allow women ministers. Have any of you read the Gospel of Mary found amongst the dead sea scrolls? She was a very powerful member of the church. Some believe she was married to Jesus. One book I read said that Jesus was an essene. A defender of the truth at all costs.


I am a member of the Salvation Army, and they have women ministers.

However, the burning at the stakes had nothing much to do with the Christian faith as much as it being perceived as a threat to the crown. The Dead Sea scroll has been discredited by major Christian/Bible scholars as fakes written centuries after the bible.
donmuntean





Joined: 27 Feb 2008
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votes: 4

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a little known fact that the 'inquisition' was directed at Jews and only later did it begin to target others for 'heresy'...
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank 85 wrote:
Quote:
The Dead Sea scroll has been discredited by major Christian/Bible scholars as fakes written centuries after the bible.


Fakes of what. Most of the scrolls are fragments of Old Testament writings. Others are original writings.


I subscribe to Biblical Archaeological Digest and have never seen or heard of any scholar who has said that.


Please provide sources for this. I'm very interested.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Catholics get to do what they want. Period. None of the opinions here matter. Period.


Agreed, though I might have used less ... brevity :lol: There's plenty of options in the Christian marketplace for people who want them some womynisters, and for people like me who aren't inclined to worship, what does it matter?

As for the Catholic church being about keeping Women down ... this is yet another time where one could point to a different faith that is without a doubt engaging in a practice that a Chrisitan denomination is unaccurately and unfairly castigated for. Not to put too fine a point on it.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
Sheila wrote:
I believe that the Catholic religion has always been about keeping women down. Well not just women, most everyone that wouldn't conform to the doctines. I can't even imagine how many people were burnt at the stake turning the Inquisition. But like you said there are prenty that allow women ministers. Have any of you read the Gospel of Mary found amongst the dead sea scrolls? She was a very powerful member of the church. Some believe she was married to Jesus. One book I read said that Jesus was an essene. A defender of the truth at all costs.


I am a member of the Salvation Army, and they have women ministers.

However, the burning at the stakes had nothing much to do with the Christian faith as much as it being perceived as a threat to the crown. The Dead Sea scroll has been discredited by major Christian/Bible scholars as fakes written centuries after the bible.




"...In the beginning, the Inquisition dealt only with Christian heretics and did not interfere with the affairs of Jews. However, disputes about Maimonides’ books (which addressed the synthesis of Judaism and other cultures) provided a pretext for harassing Jews and, in 1242, the Inquisition condemned the Talmud and burned thousands of volumes. In 1288, the first mass burning of Jews on the stake took place in France.

In 1481 the Inquisition started in Spain and ultimately surpassed the medieval Inquisition, in both scope and intensity. Conversos (Secret Jews) and New Christians were targeted because of their close relations to the Jewish community, many of whom were Jews in all but their name. Fear of Jewish influence led Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand to write a petition to the Pope asking permission to start an Inquisition in Spain. In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain, he set tribunals in many cities. Also heading the Inquisition in Spain were two Dominican monks, Miguel de Morillo and Juan de San Martin..."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrar.....ition.html
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that it's fine that the Catholic Church has its stance on celibacy for priests and that the priesthood is open only to males. Further - the Catholic Church affords tremendous opportunity to women who want to serve in the Church and pursue spiritual vows.

Of course for other women who wish to be ministers there are many faith groups where this is possible. We can find in 'the big house of faith' many rooms of multi purpose - a room for everyone who wants to serve.

In many respects it is sad that fewer and fewer men and women take to these callings - sad that it's wanning in society. It's sad that the influence of atheism and secular humanism is taking people of faith from all faiths out of their faiths. :cry:
Ravon





Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
I think that it's fine that the Catholic Church has its stance on celibacy
... and 100's of 1000's of children all over the world wish that the church had been more effective in making their priest adhere to that rule.

don muntean wrote:
In many respects it is sad that fewer and fewer men and women take to these callings - sad that it's wanning in society. It's sad that the influence of atheism and secular humanism is taking people of faith from all faiths out of their faiths. :cry:
or is just a logical outcome to thinking men and women getting out from under the thumb of religion.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
or is just a logical outcome to thinking men and women getting out from under the thumb of religion.


Or is it just men and women becoming more selfish and not giving a f*ck about their fellow man. :x

You secular humanists think you have it all figured out don't ya. All I see is people freed from the bonds of religion so they can be the most selfish a-holes in history.

Thinking beyond ones self inorder to think of the common good is not just a commie principal. Jesus spoke of such things. So did JFK.

Religion is not a negative in society. People who don't understand true religion are!
paisley_cross





Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 806
Reputation: 124.9
votes: 3
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
I don't mind having a female lead a church, however, I don't like how people are giving the Catholics a hard time over this.


Doctrine falls solely within the province of the religion involved. These comments that you hear every so often ("My religion is the only true faith" or "My religion is better than yours") only give rise to religious intolerance and it is a pity that some religions teach that kind of thing.

Women are just as capable of leadership as men and therefore can take on the role of religious leadership just as well as men can. But if a particular brand of religion preaches a male-only clergy, well, so be it. None of the rest of us is bound by that.
don muntean





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Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ravon wrote:
don muntean wrote:
I think that it's fine that the Catholic Church has its stance on celibacy
... and 100's of 1000's of children all over the world wish that the church had been more effective in making their priest adhere to that rule.

don muntean wrote:
In many respects it is sad that fewer and fewer men and women take to these callings - sad that it's wanning in society. It's sad that the influence of atheism and secular humanism is taking people of faith from all faiths out of their faiths. :cry:
or is just a logical outcome to thinking men and women getting out from under the thumb of religion.


Ravon - did you post an answer that question I asked?

Your wrote:

I am thankful for people like that because they clearly demonstrate the complete hypocrisies of not only Christianity but of all religions. The more firm they seem in their beliefs the more their pendulums swing between love and hate - until all that's left is their love for hate. Laughing

I asked:

How does this [the Phelps inbreeding cult] "demonstrate the complete hypocrisies of not only Christianity but of all religions"? Please explain?
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Women Priests/ministers Yah or Nay

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