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Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I need some help with the Flex-Fuel things,
What fuel can I use? and where can I get it?


Over the last few days I've noticed a number of newer North American cars now have a "Flex-Fuel- E85 Ready" decal on the back. It reminds you of the "Hybrid Power" decals Toyota puts on its cars.

Looks like the Big 3 are trying to market their vehicles as eco-friendly by bringing attention to a feature they've had for years now.

So far I've seen an Impala, a Caravan and some type of truck with the decals on them.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
I guess it all depends if you believe in Hubbard's Peak. The point at which demand for oil exceeds production. Some say it has already arrived.
Some said that it had arrived in the 1950s...
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If demand exceeds production, wouldn't we be seeing gas shortages at the pumps?
Wallace





Joined: 09 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
If demand exceeds production, wouldn't we be seeing gas shortages at the pumps?


You act as though there is a price ceiling, with an inelastic good such as gasoline, rarity simply means higher prices.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She didn't say rare.

She said demand is higher than production, meaning shortage. If we were using more than we were making we'd see shortages.
Wallace





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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
She didn't say rare.

She said demand is higher than production, meaning shortage. If we were using more than we were making we'd see shortages.


When a product increases in rarity (the result of a shortage) with a demand as inelastic as gasoline, prices will go up. This is simple supply and demand. If there is demand for oil, and not enough to go around, sellers will just raise prices to compensate. If there was some law that prevented gas prices from going up, you'd be correct, however that is not the case. It's simple economics.

Speculatively, as soon as gas prices go high enough, there will be enough overhead to start mass production in the alberta oil sands.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not talking about prices. If the useage of something outpaces the means of production, you'd have shortages, not just the type of shortage where prices increase, I'm talking about the types of shortages where you pull up to the gas station and the sign says:

"OUT OF GAS"
Wallace





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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
I'm not talking about prices. If the useage of something outpaces the means of production, you'd have shortages, not just the type of shortage where prices increase, I'm talking about the types of shortages where you pull up to the gas station and the sign says:

"OUT OF GAS"


Well it depends upon wether or not the market is controlled. If there are ceiling prices, than shortages can occur. When the amount of gas drops, and there is the same amount of demand, and there is a price ceiling, you'd have a shortage.

However in the freer market when a substance becomes scarce, all of the sellers involved in that substance will all increase their prices, so vehicle owners have less incentive to purchase gas. If prices go high enough, people will just switch over to another substance.

Unless there is some gas pricing law you know about and I don't, an instance where prices remain static while the substance disappears can't occur. I'm not sure where you get the idea that that is a possibility. Unless you just mean all petrol on the planet magically disappears all at once.

If we were to just all go poof, we still got coal, it's not like we ran out of the stuff, gas just became cheaper.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gas shortages can happen. Look into the 1970's.

FYI: some provinces do have price-control regulations on gasoline. For example I believe in NB they have to give one week notice before they raise the price of gasoline.
Wallace





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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Blue wrote:
Gas shortages can happen. Look into the 1970's.

FYI: some provinces do have price-control regulations on gasoline. For example I believe in NB they have to give one week notice before they raise the price of gasoline.


Yeah, there was some crazy over-regulation and rationing going on then. The situation eventually worked itself out, however the regulation slowed down the progress of alternative solutions.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention OPEC deciding to drastically cut production to the point where demand outpaced production...leading to shortages.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
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Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The creed in the oilpatch is if you cannot be part of the solution there is good money to be made in prolonging the problem. :lol:
I wonder why Exxon is getting out of exploration?
http://finance.sympatico.msn.c.....id=7316270
(Thanks for the link Rocky)
Honestly all they are doing around here is trying to get what's left. No new major discoveries of oil. It was only about a month ago that there was a shut down at a production plant at Fort Saskatchewan. I remember on the news that there were places that did feel the shortage.
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
The creed in the oilpatch is if you cannot be part of the solution there is good money to be made in prolonging the problem. :lol:
I wonder why Exxon is getting out of exploration?
http://finance.sympatico.msn.c.....id=7316270
(Thanks for the link Rocky)
Honestly all they are doing around here is trying to get what's left. No new major discoveries of oil. It was only about a month ago that there was a shut down at a production plant at Fort Saskatchewan. I remember on the news that there were places that did feel the shortage.


No new discoveries of oil, except for that one off of Brazil. I think that's proof positive that no-one is exploring anymore eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/.....il.oil.ap/

So much for that conspiracy theory.

Edit: More up to date story

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....lenews_wsj


Last edited by Bleatmop on Sat May 31, 2008 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wallace wrote:
Cool Blue wrote:
She didn't say rare.

She said demand is higher than production, meaning shortage. If we were using more than we were making we'd see shortages.


When a product increases in rarity (the result of a shortage) with a demand as inelastic as gasoline, prices will go up. This is simple supply and demand. If there is demand for oil, and not enough to go around, sellers will just raise prices to compensate. If there was some law that prevented gas prices from going up, you'd be correct, however that is not the case. It's simple economics.

Speculatively, as soon as gas prices go high enough, there will be enough overhead to start mass production in the alberta oil sands.
Inelastic, you keep saying that word, but I don't think you grasp the meaning. It means that the same amount of fuel is being burned, regardless of price. THE SAME AMOUNT. So the shortage argument is valid.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:

No new discoveries of oil, except for that one off of Brazil. I think that's proof positive that no-one is exploring anymore eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/.....il.oil.ap/

So much for that conspiracy theory.
And the Bakken...
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