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Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Bleatmop, well if I had told you a year ago that the intelligence on Sadam Hussein was wrong, you would have called me a conspiracy theorist. Like I said before, some conspiracies prove true. Yes it would be sad to find out that your government conspired against you and started a war. You wonder why these people have hunger strikes? 70 - 75% of the American population is huge, over 200 million people believe this, that means that YOU are in the minority that doesn't.
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Reputation: 17.5Reputation: 17.5
votes: 10

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Yeah Bleatmop, well if I had told you a year ago that the intelligence on Sadam Hussein was wrong, you would have called me a conspiracy theorist. Like I said before, some conspiracies prove true. Yes it would be sad to find out that your government conspired against you and started a war. You wonder why these people have hunger strikes? 70 - 75% of the American population is huge, over 200 million people believe this, that means that YOU are in the minority that doesn't.


I don't care if I'm in a minority or not. Wrong is wrong. There is plenty of evidence out there to corroborate the story that 9/11 is what we are told it was, an attack by islamic terrorists. You choose to ignore it and trivialize this issue. That is wrong.

As for you telling me what I would and would not have said a year ago, go shove it in a dark place. You don't have any idea what I would have told you a year ago.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This stat of 70% of americans believe that Bush ordered the 9/11 attacks where does it come from? I need to see the exact poll results and really need to see how the question that elicited that response was worded.

I don't want to sound distrustful but I smell a "partisan poll" rat. More then likely I smell some sort of Urban legend like the guy, with the hook, instead of a hand, at night, During a raging thunder storm, when your car is stalled, on a dark and lonely road.

I need a credible source or I just can't take it seriously, sorry.
gc





Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4
votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
This stat of 70% of americans believe that Bush ordered the 9/11 attacks where does it come from?

To be fair, it's actually about 70% of Americans beleive that the government is hiding something about 9/11, it is not the percentage of people who think that the government ordered the attacks. See my post on page 2 for a link to some polls.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:
There is plenty of evidence out there to corroborate the story that 9/11 is what we are told it was, an attack by islamic terrorists.


Bleatmop make sure you keep on believing everything you're told. That makes you a good sheeple. Your name even tells us so. As I have only ever heard a sheep bleat.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being skeptical is key to critical thinking but anything taken to extremes becomes unreliable and often dangerous. Those who embrace conspiracy theories without using Occam's Razor deserve their reputation as fanatical fools.

-Mac
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that right Mac. Well 3 months ago I would never have believed that the local RCMP would conspire against my 11 year old son, a personal vendetta because of something that happened on a playground. But it happened, and I am very disappointed in them. But in the end, we got what we wanted, except the corp. went overboard and told my son that he was perfectly justified in pulling out his knife when the other kid threatened him with a baseball bat. He told my son that he would have done the same thing. He also said he wasn't sure that he got through to the other family. I will never be able to look at my local RCMP in the same light. Not that they're bad people, it's just human nature I guess. One of the seven deadly sins, I think it was wrath.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me get this straight Sheila,

You live in an area where you think it is perfectly justifable that your 11 year old son needs to carry and produce a knife in a playground?

Time to move I would think.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazymamma, we have always told our son, at the point he pulled out his little pocketknife, he was in the wrong. We never waivered on that, eventhough in the end the corporal told him he was justified. Little boys love to whittle. He pulled it out of his pocket when the DOT's kid threatened to beat him up with the bat. Apparently these two kids love to tell everyone at school that their dad is a cop. 12 days after the knife incident which happened at a playground, the police thought it was such a threat that the school phoned me, and I was there 20 minutes later because the police staged an intervention at the school (although none of this happened anywhere near school grounds). They searched his locker and found some funky drawings (which they still have) and the corporal proceeded to tell my son that if he ever does anything wrong again (which he will, he is only 11, and he's a boy), he will be taken from his family. My family, who are law abiding citizens, who have no criminal record. "You like living at home Greg, don't you, do you have siblings? How would like like not to be able to live with your family". He was told he could not talk to these two children or ABOUT them. After this, I was pretty sure that my 11 year old would never go to the police ever again, for any reason. Interestingly enough the little girl met him in the hailway after this "intervention" and told him her dad was coming to see him today. No we handled it in a different manor. When I talked to the corporal, I asked him if he had a chance to interrogate the DOT's kids and tell them the same thing, that he told my son. No, he hadn't had a chance to talk to them yet. I called him a liar and my husband took the phone away from me and told the corporal that he had just finished having a talk with the DOT and they came to the conclusion that this could have been handled in an appropriate manner. The DOT maintains he never put in a complaint against our son. So what, the corporal just took it and ran with it?
Right after this phone call the corporal called and wanted us to come to the cop shop. Well I refused because I thought I would be more of a hindrance, lol. By the time my husband was done, the corporal was kissing his ass and hung baby cop out on the line to roast, but the DOT guy, well the corporal said he wasn't sure if he got through to him. In all this, I really appreciate my son's elementary school principal, who saw what was going on. The corporal said that through all of this Greg was the only one that told the truth. He was a good kid in his eyes. That was the only thing that we were concerned about that our son would not carry a "bad kid" label and he would be treated fairly next time. I have no illusions, there will be a next time. A few days later my son said he wanted to be a policeman. :o
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Well you guys love to debate everything else, why not this? Come on, please give me a quote from your 90 million scientists who deny this. By the way FFCanuck, you were the one who started this damn thread and now you don't want to talk about it. What's up with that? Oh I forgot, you only want to post crap about crazy people, just so you can laugh at them.


Why not??? Because it is an insult to every person that died that day on 9/11. To trivialize their deaths with crazy conspiracy theories is a horrible, horrible, horrible thing to do.


Thank you. It trivializes the death of over 2000 innocents, the pain and suffering of hundreds of families, and the 400,000 New Yorkers afflicted with PTSD, and the heroic bravery of the Flight 23 passengers. it is a grotesque insult to the memory and honor of over 400 fallen firefighters, paramedics, and cops who, though I've never met them, I hold as family. It grossly impugns the valor and integrity of the hundreds of emergency workers who survived the tragedy, and makes mockery of their sacrifice and grief for their brothers and sisters. Finally, it is an insidious social disease that weakens the fabric of our society, and interferes with Western Civilization's struggle against powerful, dangerous ideology.
plantguy





Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 452
Reputation: 96.8Reputation: 96.8
votes: 1
Location: Lower Economy, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"When you hear the sound of hoofbeats don't automatically think it's zebras"
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what a lot of people really mean when they talk about debate is, "you listen to my ideas then you accept them without argument". Sheila does not want a debate, she wants us to agree with her. The fact that she wants and or needs our validation should tell her something about her beliefs.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
It trivializes the death of over 2000 innocents, the pain and suffering of hundreds of families, and the 400,000 New Yorkers afflicted with PTSD, and the heroic bravery of the Flight 23 passengers. it is a grotesque insult to the memory and honor of over 400 fallen firefighters, paramedics, and cops who, though I've never met them, I hold as family. It grossly impugns the valor and integrity of the hundreds of emergency workers who survived the tragedy, and makes mockery of their sacrifice and grief for their brothers and sisters. Finally, it is an insidious social disease that weakens the fabric of our society, and interferes with Western Civilization's struggle against powerful, dangerous ideology.


What exactly were you trying to prove by posting the article about the man who was having a hunger strike because he believed his government ordered the attack on 9/11? I think THAT article just trivialized the deaths of over 2,000 innocents. Do you feel the same about your bothers and sisters in China who just had major earthquakes and aftershocks? Or do you only save that feeling for Americans you don't know?
If you think this is something new for the US government you are so wrong. They had it written up like a manual in 1962.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
And don't worry kwlafayette, the last thing I need is YOUR approval or validation. You still haven't told me exactly where Richard Gage was out to lunch.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Is that right Mac.

Yes, it's right, Sheila.

Glad everything turned out well with your son. I wonder if the others involved in the situation you described figure there's a police conspiracy as well?

-Mac
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you can ask them yourself, I will send you a private message with their phone numbers. You can talk to the corporal directly if you wish. I'm sure he'll remember this as it only happened in April.
But the real kicker was between the bat/knife incident and the intervention at school, Greg was with two other boys and they started some grass on fire. He took off his coat and tried to put the fire out and the fire truck came and put it out while they waited. The only thing that was damaged was some grass. I got a call from one of the other parents and got there in 10 minutes. The police (baby cop, who at the time believed my son was a knife wielding thug) informed us that Greg confessed to starting the fire and if he "had his way they would all be charged with arson, which would limit any opportunity they had in the future." I don't know when it became standard procedure to interrogate an 11 year old without his parents present. He also told us that since the fire ban just came into effect 2 1/2 hours ago, under the by-law, the parents would have to pay for the fire truck, the ambulance, and the police that were called out. At the back of my mind I knew my home insurance would pay for any damage done by my under 12 year old. But I went along with it because I thought he was trying to set an example. I also realized that the other boy's parents probably didn't have insurance at all and they would be held liable. The boys all had to write a letter to all the services involved and say that they were sorry, which they did. As we were leaving the police (baby cop) asked Greg if he knew anything about a knife. When my husband asked him what that was about, he replied "oh nothing". On the way home Greg told us that the police had told him that it would be best if he confessed to starting the fire because the other two boys had been in trouble a few weeks previous and had shot a teenage girl in the leg with an air gun. Because of this they each spent 20 minutes in a different jail cell. So they were told that if either one of them had started the fire, they would be spending the night in jail. These boys are 9 and 10 years old. So that was Greg's big confession, admitting to something he didn't do. I know this for a fact because when I questioned the other boy he admitted that he had been lighting a piece of grass and it burnt his hand and he dropped it.
So Mac it was a conspiracy against my son, to teach him a lesson, not to F*** with the DOT's kids. When my husband was at the cop shop he questioned both the corporal and the baby cop. The baby cop said the reason he asked Greg about a knife was because there had been a knife incident at shool that day. (The next day we asked the principal if there had been a knife incident at the school that day, he said no, and he also confirmed that there had not been a knife incident that day in the middle school or the high school either.) Which means baby cop was lying. My husband asked him why the knife incident at school was not resolved by 8:30 that night when the fire started. The corporal confirmed that he was unaware of any knife incident and he is the liason worker between the police and school. That was the point that the corporal hung the baby cop out on the line to roast.
I also told those other two boys involved in the fire, that if they ever have trouble with the police again to call me, because who is going to protect their rights, their rights to be kids and make mistakes? Even the principal told me that he had a "fire incident" as a boy. I imagine most everyone on this forum has.
So in the end, the baby cop maintains that he asked Greg about the knife only because there had been a knife incident at the school that day. Confirmed later that there wasn't.
The DOT maintains he never put in a complaint against our son, he had only talked to the corporal at a baseball game to ask him his advise on the situation. I also wonder how many people were at the baseball game who overheard what was being said about my kid. He also said that he had talked to the corporal since the intervention and knew all about the bat.
The corporal maintains that he never talked to the DOT after the intervention. He maintains that the only time he talked to the DOT was when he put in the complaint at 9 am. 10 minutes later I got the call from the principal and 20 minutes later I was at the school for the intervention. He said he didn't have a chance to talk to the DOT guy, that's when I called him a liar.
You know Mac, I even thought about sending you a private message and thought maybe you could give me some advice. But I really didn't want to compromise your position. I have great respect for the RCMP, just not this detachment.
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