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Mac





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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:30 am    Post subject: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Reply with quote

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Apparently, this movie isn't coming to Canada.

Thoughts?

-Mac
FF_Canuck





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Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've gotta say I'm intrigued, it looks like it has good production values, and Ben Stein is usually compelling. I'm not a supporter of ID, but it looks like the movie is less about selling the theory and more about what's happening to its proponents.

If it is anything like what was / is happening to Global Warming skeptics, it might point to some larger issues in the scientific community. On the other hand, I've heard (and the clip verifies) that Stein violates Godwin's in a big way in the third act, which is taking things pretty far.
donmuntean





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
I've gotta say I'm intrigued, it looks like it has good production values, and Ben Stein is usually compelling. I'm not a supporter of ID, but it looks like the movie is less about selling the theory and more about what's happening to its proponents.

If it is anything like what was / is happening to Global Warming skeptics, it might point to some larger issues in the scientific community. On the other hand, I've heard (and the clip verifies) that Stein violates Godwin's in a big way in the third act, which is taking things pretty far.


What's this movie about? :?
Mac





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a great fan of conspiracy theories so it makes me wonder when someone like Ben Stein starts talking like that. We've all seen how the more radical atheists start frothing at the mouth at the mere suggestion of intelligent design or any concept other than Darwinism but a conspiracy theory implies existence of an organized leadership component. Whether one agrees or disagrees with intelligent design theory, to suggest there's a conspiracy against exploration of it's possibility sound a bit paranoid.

Then again, I haven't seen the movie yet.

-Mac
Riley W





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm definitely gonna check this out whenever its in theaters or on DVD.

I personally support Intelligent Design.

I think creationism is way out there, and really ignorant, so I can understand the scientific community's objection to creationism in the classroom. But intelligent design (which is basically evolution with God as a component...) falls in line with the science but fills the gaps of logic, and makes it make sense.

I personally don't believe everything was some random course of evolution that randomly created conditions that sustain human life, like we have now...thats way to much of a coincidence to lie down to "randomness".

So although I consider myself a soft-Christian (more of a cultural Christian), I am a definite theist, because all of my logic dictates that Science can't explain the origins of everything without a God component.

And you know what? How hypocritical of the Left...they are okay with special interest minority groups hi-jacking the history curriculum to get their chapter in on blacks, woman, gays, handicapped people, etc. etc. but when we want to get just a brief mention of Intelligent Design in the science curriculum, they go off the wall nuts.

Like the movie points out, there is much evidence pointing towards Intelligent Design. The danger we have now is, that in the scientific community, its like a prerequisite that you MUST be an atheist, if your are to be taken serious...if you believe in God your ostracized.


Think of it...to me, it takes more faith and belief to be an atheist then a theist, because you must accept that it was all a random coincidence that evolution has randomly caused what we have now...and that (through the Big Bang theory...which I accept, but again, with God who initiated it) all the matter of the universe has either always been (explain that logic to me?), or exploded from nothing (big bang).

To me the ultimate logic that points to a God, is that to me all matter has to have been initially created.

anyways rant over...
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
I'm not a great fan of conspiracy theories so it makes me wonder when someone like Ben Stein starts talking like that. We've all seen how the more radical atheists start frothing at the mouth at the mere suggestion of intelligent design or any concept other than Darwinism but a conspiracy theory implies existence of an organized leadership component. Whether one agrees or disagrees with intelligent design theory, to suggest there's a conspiracy against exploration of it's possibility sound a bit paranoid.

Then again, I haven't seen the movie yet.

-Mac


Unfortunately Ben isn't paranoid. There is a conspiracy to keep ID down, and I am the leader of it. It's a shame he got involved in this movie because I was only 2 weeks away from convincing everyone that ID is a flawed theory and having everyone abandon it. Damn you Ben Stein!! Damn you!!! You've foiled me one too many times!!!!

"Darwinists" everywhere, do not despair. Us evil people behind the conspiracy have a new plan to defeat Ben Stein. It involved the world's supply of egg plant, your first born, and all the Templar gold that we've beens stashing away since we stole it during the crusades. Those of you who are not "Darwinists", please disregard this message as it is confidential and intended for "Darwinists" only. :P
Mac





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:
Damn you Ben Stein!! Damn you!!! You've foiled me one too many times!!!!

Ummm, Bleatmop, you have a bit of foam on your lip. You wanna give it a wipe there? :wink:

-Mac
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
Bleatmop wrote:
Damn you Ben Stein!! Damn you!!! You've foiled me one too many times!!!!

Ummm, Bleatmop, you have a bit of foam on your lip. You wanna give it a wipe there? :wink:

-Mac


Woops, sorry. It's tough being an evil mastermind that creates worldwide conspiracies without foaming at the mouth some times.
Mac





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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:
Woops, sorry. It's tough being an evil mastermind that creates worldwide conspiracies without foaming at the mouth some times.

No problem. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have pointed it out.

-Mac
donmuntean





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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...it would seem that people have to be intelligent to see the design... :lol:
Wallace





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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I would not consider myself an atheist, I tend to go with science is the how, faith is the why.
However, Intelligent design is not a theory, and it is not science.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=NiNGK3y5Ypg
(the why people laugh at creationist series definitely worth watching)

Ken Miller (a christian) gives an excelent lecture on the sheer absurdity of ID proponents, it's worth watching if you have 2 hours to spare.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neither side will ever convince the other. Darwinist think creationists are religious idiots. Creationists think Darwinists are heathen's deceiving people and helping send people to hell.

If you believe in God you probably explore both sides. I came to the conclusion that there are good arguments for both sides and God probably used both evolution and design to create the world. Arguing about it is not a productive way to spend your time.

Put it on a shelf and ponder it once in a while. If God is in control it don't matter anyway.
Mac





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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Put it on a shelf and ponder it once in a while. If God is in control it don't matter anyway.

If God isn't in control, it don't matter either!

-Mac
Wallace





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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!
You actually used the word "darwinist"?!
You seem to believe there is an actual debate?!
That there are sides and that they each have arguments?!
That people who are religious can't believe in evolution?!
That people who believe in evolution can't be religious?!
Those are some pretty bizarre claims, as globally most christians are evolutionists and most evolutionists are christian.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68ELbAY

Arguing about it is a wast of time because there is nothing to debate, as evolution is correct.
Also strange that someone before said that evolution is random?!
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been reading 'reviews' as they come in from my own trusted sources, and it doesn't look as good, nor as bad, as it could be... by which I mean what you get out of it is really going to depend on your thoughts headed in. ID proponents will love it, others likely will not - I've seen a few people call it a right-wing 'Bowling for Columbine'.

Not having seen the film, I can't say whether that is an accurate label... but at this juncture, it doesn't seem to have added any substance to the debate.
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