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TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
Reputation: 50.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: Handgun Ban Petition Reply with quote

I know that some of you disagree with a nationwide handgun ban but for those of you that think HANDGUNS (not long guns used by hunters), should be banned except for:

- registered collectors.
- registered target shooters where the guns have to be kept at the shooting range.
- Police, guards.

To be clear, I can't stand Mayor David Miller but I'm looking past that due to my hatred towards handguns. Please go to http://www.toronto.ca/handgunban/ and sign the nationwide petition to finally have these guns banned.

It gives police yet another tool to charge handgun carriers, not only in cases where they kill someone or shoot at someone, but if they are found just carrying one. STIFF new gun laws (such as a mandatory year in prison for just carrying a handgun) could then be put in place, even if the guns these people are getting are "black market" guns from the USA.

Wanna get tougher on crime? Give the police and justice sytem another tool to put these people behind bars.
plantguy





Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 452
Reputation: 96.8Reputation: 96.8
votes: 1
Location: Lower Economy, Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the current law and penalty for possesion of an illegal handgun (or modified long gun)?
Ardvark





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Reputation: 54.4
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another tool for the police? You mean over and above the handgun laws now in existence that make carrying a handgun illegal in all but a few heavily regulated circumstances?

We can't even keep illegal and 'banned' drugs out of our prison system. How can anyone expect that a handgun ban can do in the rest of Canada what the state can't do with armed guards, barbed wire, etc in the highly controlled setting of a jail?


Last edited by Ardvark on Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not on your life would I sign such a petition. They can continue to escalate the penalty for uses of a gun during the commission of a crime all they want. I like that, but frankly it's no bodies Gd business if I have none or fifty in my home.

You don't like guns? Bully for you, I don't like guns? bully for me. Guns are not the problem, it is very clearly the criminals and the justice system.

Up until recently I have been vehemently anti-gun to the point that I never even allowed my boys to play with toy guns. Still I would never sign such an petition.
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
Reputation: 50.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never understood the passionate defense of the ownership of killing devices... You can't go hunting with a handgun.

Do you also condemn the ownership of other weapons such as grenades for instance? Home-made bombs? Handguns are in the same category as far as I'm concerned (in the context of NON-collector, NON-target shooting - see above).

There is no use for handguns beyond those stated above.

Why would anyone who is not a "collector" or "target shooter" want to own a handgun?

If it is for "your own protection", buy a 22 calibur rifle....that can't be concealed outside of the home.

OR, if you are a law abiding citizen......., you wouldn't mind registering (for free) as a registered "collector".

I totally agree that a handgun ban won't stop criminals COMPLETELY from using them. But the stats are out there, that in cities or municipalities, where 'bans" have been put in place, there are less incidents (of all kinds) with handguns.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would police need a weapon that is banned? If I can't have it, the cops should not have it either.
Ardvark





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Reputation: 54.4
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TorontoCon wrote:

I totally agree that a handgun ban won't stop criminals COMPLETELY from using them. But the stats are out there, that in cities or municipalities, where 'bans" have been put in place, there are less incidents (of all kinds) with handguns.


I call BS, let's see those stats. If what has happened in Washington DC, England and Australia are any indication of how handgun bans work, I suspect you will have your work cut out for you.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to acquire a handgun in Canada today? Give your local gun shop a call and see. I guarantee it will open your eyes.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TorontoCon wrote:
I never understood the passionate defense of the ownership of killing devices... You can't go hunting with a handgun.

Do you also condemn the ownership of other weapons such as grenades for instance? Home-made bombs? Handguns are in the same category as far as I'm concerned (in the context of NON-collector, NON-target shooting - see above).

There is no use for handguns beyond those stated above.

Why would anyone who is not a "collector" or "target shooter" want to own a handgun?

If it is for "your own protection", buy a 22 calibur rifle....that can't be concealed outside of the home.

OR, if you are a law abiding citizen......., you wouldn't mind registering (for free) as a registered "collector".

I totally agree that a handgun ban won't stop criminals COMPLETELY from using them. But the stats are out there, that in cities or municipalities, where 'bans" have been put in place, there are less incidents (of all kinds) with handguns.
You definitely can go hunting with a handgun. You are just plain and simply wrong here.

http://www.handgunhunt.com/

How many times have we heard that old canard? More times than I can count.

PS. I won't even go into the over the top use of the straw man. That has to be a new record for the straw man, comparing fragmentation grenades and IEDs to handguns. It was almost a laugh out loud moment.

Cars kill more people in this country in one week than handguns do in a year. There, now I am the one making unsupported assertions of fact!
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I just had an idea. Maybe police don't need guns at all, maybe all they need are hand grenades and home made bombs!
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
Reputation: 50.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Why would police need a weapon that is banned? If I can't have it, the cops should not have it either.


Oh my God.... Are you kidding me with that argument? :roll: (I'm sure you are but still...)


Last edited by TorontoCon on Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look. I have alot of respect for everyone on these boards and it seems as though the ownership of handguns is a dividing issue on the same scope as abortion.

Extremely polarizing it seems.

Please list your top 5 reasons why regular citizens (not law enforcement) "need" to own handguns in Canada. I truly want to hear it and respect your views. You know my views. Thanks.

P.S. I'm not even going to try and debate this. Like Abortion, nobody's going to change their minds on either side. I just want to here your side is all..

And at least those FOR a handgun ban can follow the link provided and quietly sign the petition.
dotconservative





Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Reputation: 26.2Reputation: 26.2Reputation: 26.2

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look how the "ban" on weed got it off the streets...

My point is, the demand will be supplied. If not through B&Es on gun collectors homes than from the States. You don't need to ban handguns in the sense you're implying to impose a min. sentence on somebody with a gun and no license.

I would buy a gun because the thugs have guns and will always have guns. If they try to pull a home invasion on my house I won't hide under my bed and wait for the cops. A ban would only deter me from protecting my family with a legally owned gun, not the thugs who smuggled theirs in.
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2269
Reputation: 59.8
votes: 4
Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Miller based his states on the London, England experiment on hand gun ban. However the murder rate has gone up in London, England because knifes have replaced guns. Next he will want to ban guns.

The mayor of Toronto should not use city resources to fight this. I wonder how much bureaucratic waste has gone into this petition?

People need to realise that these thugs are using…wait for it…ILLEGAL HANDGUNS!!! They are already illegal!
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
Reputation: 50.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dotconservative wrote:
Look how the "ban" on weed got it off the streets...


Typical response but that doesn't mean we should legalize weed.

This debate has been had a million times in other forums and maybe even this one before I joined up.

The typical responses from BOTH sides of the argument never really change....
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
Reputation: 50.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
David Miller based his states on the London, England experiment on hand gun ban. However the murder rate has gone up in London, England because knifes have replaced guns. Next he will want to ban guns.

The mayor of Toronto should not use city resources to fight this. I wonder how much bureaucratic waste has gone into this petition?

People need to realise that these thugs are using…wait for it…ILLEGAL HANDGUNS!!! They are already illegal!


Then whats wrong with banning them as a sign of good faith if it doesn't really affect anyone at all. At least it sends a positive message.

This debate is almost the same as "getting tough on crime by increasing minimum sentences". .... which I agree with.

Many argue that THAT approach hasn't worked in the USA, so why should we increase minimum sentences HERE???

Well I respectfully disagree with that assessment. and it is no different than the whole Handgun issue in my opinion.

So I'm not going to be hypocritical by supporting an INCREASE in minimum sentences but not supporting a handgun ban....
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