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casper35





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me be clearer, gc - the legal system is so lenient that the criminals have absolutely no fear of it. They know that getting caught is just a minor inconvenience not a life changing event.
gc





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

casper35 wrote:
Let me be clearer, gc - the legal system is so lenient that the criminals have absolutely no fear of it. They know that getting caught is just a minor inconvenience not a life changing event.

Sure, but buying a handgun from someone that was smuggled into the country seems like much less of an inconvenience to me. Especially when you know that the owner of the house owns a collection of guns...
casper35





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they steal it - it's free. BTW, you never responded to the bigger point. Taking away handguns from legal owner does not prevent illegally owed guns from being acquired. The source of the illegal guns just changes. The public is still not any safer.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
Its a growing trend, and you may be right the US cannot keep up with demand so Canadian criminals are just outsourcing overseas.

If they could get guns overseas, then they wouldn't have to break into homes to get them would they?
My point is that guns which are illegally smuggled (whether from the U.S. or elsewhere) is not enough to keep up with the demand, which is why people have to resort to breaking into homes. If people can't break into homes to steal guns, that doesn't mean there will be an increase in the number of guns smuggled. When there is an excess of demand, creating more demand will not increase the supply.


I don't think you can imply that most home break-in's are solely to acquire guns.

Personally, the concept of napping a flatscreen, laptop and a PS3 which I could move very easily for cash would be my primary target and should I happen across some guns which I could move in the process why not?
gc





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

casper35 wrote:
If they steal it - it's free. BTW, you never responded to the bigger point. Taking away handguns from legal owner does not prevent illegally owed guns from being acquired.

Actually, I did address it a few times by saying that cutting off one source of guns will not cause in increase in another source of guns.
gc





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
I don't think you can imply that most home break-in's are solely to acquire guns.

I'm not sure about "most", but certainly gun owners are targeted for their guns.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would they know that GC? It's not as if gun owners have a sign on the door that says beware of gun, or this house protected by hand gun security systems. I mean really give it a shake will you.
gc





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
How would they know that GC?

Who knows, there are a lot of ways. Probably not too hard to figure out.
How about following someone home from the shooting range? How about targeting someone you know who has guns? How about someone who subscribes to a gun magazine? etc....
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds a bit stalkerish dontcha think? You honestly think those methods are easier then going to the corner of X and Y and just asking your local drug dealer where to get one?
gc





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
Sounds a bit stalkerish dontcha thank? You think those methods are easier then going to the corner of X and Y and asking your local drug dealer where to get one?

Precisely my point.
What if your drug dealer doesn't have enough weapons to go around?
gc





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...or what if you don't happen to know anyone that sells guns...
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
crazymamma wrote:
Sounds a bit stalkerish dontcha thank? You think those methods are easier then going to the corner of X and Y and asking your local drug dealer where to get one?

Precisely my point.
What if your drug dealer doesn't have enough weapons to go around?


Pleassssssse those dudes would sell their granny for a buck, they will find you what you want.

But enough of this silliness, you still haven't adequately explained why 100% of the Canadian population is required to give up their rights to own a gun just so 16% of guns used in gun crime can't be stolen from a Canadian private "so called legal" gun owner.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not about that crazymamma. It is about inanimate objects being imbued with evil force that takes people over and turns them into monsters. At least, that is what I glean from the anti-handgun arguments I have heard so far.

I have seen mocking.
I have seen unsourced statements.
I have seen emotional appeals.
I have not seen any cold hard facts. Nothing that proves I am safer without a gun that with one.

I mean really, there should be plenty of examples, if in fact the anti handgun crowd were right. States that implement right to concealed carry laws should see an increase in violent crime, it would be plain to anyone who examined the numbers. Schools, cities, and countries that ban guns should experience less shootings than before the ban. The fact that the evidence does not exist to support their position, yet they insist on sticking to their position, is not rational.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Analyzing National Crime Victimization Survey data, criminologist Gary Kleck found, “robbery and assault victims who used a gun to resist were less likely to be attacked or to suffer an injury than those who used any other methods of self-protection or those who did not resist at all.”11 In the 1990s, Kleck and Marc Gertz found that guns were used for self-protection about 2.5 million times annually.12 The late Marvin E. Wolfgang, self-described as “as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country,” who wanted to “eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police,” said, “The methodological soundness of the current Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it. . . . I cannot fault their methodology.”13 A study for the Dept. of Justice found that 34% of felons had been “scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim,” and 40% of felons have not committed crimes, fearing potential victims were armed.14


11. Targeting Guns, Aldine de Gruyter, 1997, p. 171.

12. “Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun,” Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995, pp. 150-187.

13. “A Tribute to a View That I Have Opposed,” Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995, pp. 188-192.

14. J. Wright and P. Rossi, Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms, 1986, p. 155.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/F.....aspx?ID=18
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
casper35 wrote:
If they steal it - it's free. BTW, you never responded to the bigger point. Taking away handguns from legal owner does not prevent illegally owed guns from being acquired.

Actually, I did address it a few times by saying that cutting off one source of guns will not cause in increase in another source of guns.


Which is speculation at best. Just like how it was speculated that banning handguns in England would decrease handgun violence.
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