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mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who thinks Tory can still lead this party has their head up their #ss. Cosmostien has this read perfectly. I do not take interest in Provincial politics usually but I think I might from now on. This province is to leftwing and I am losing to much tax money to the socialist regime.

Why can there not be a clear alternative. Left wing, right wing.

If your leftwing you tax the crap out of people and support redundant wasteful social programs and pie in the sky utopian ideals.

If your rightwing you tax less and get rid of wasteful stupid programs while trying to run an efficiant government. It's not that hard people. Clear choice is a good thing!
hamiltonguyo





Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 250
Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Ontario PCs Reply with quote

frasermacdonald wrote:
I still think John Tory is totally capable of winning in 2011. He's more angry about the past election than any of us, and has already begun to take steps to correct a lot of the problems. The platform crafting is already well under way, and I advise anyone interested to get involved with the Policy Advisory Councils (P.A.C.'s) crafting our next platform, which will be voted on by members at the convention preceding Oct. 2011 (ie no more religious schools-like issues slipping in).

I think healthcare is still one of the top issues for Ontarians (and all Canadians), and with the CMA and many others warming up to private delivery (not using the word two-tier), I think we can gain a lot of ground by having a simple, well-handled healthcare reform plan.

Even Sweden has private delivery (and thus better healthcare than us), and I'd quickly adopt their model vs. ours. Something more along the lines of the British NHS would vastly improve Ontario's health crisis. If we had some skilled communications people who could explain this to the public and not let Warren Kinsella spin it to "only rich people get doctors", I think Ontarians would support us.

Tory had a good start with this on the '07 platform with electronic health records and private delivery within public system, but no one even noticed because of the black mark on the platform.

Let's have a REAL debate about where we want to go with healthcare in this province, WIN the debate, and FIX healthcare. This can be a winning issue if we handle it right.

As a side note, I am aiming to take part in the Education P.A.C. and advocate for removing the waste-of-time careers class from grade 10 and instead replace it with a personal finance course. How to plan a mortgage, pay a credit card, balance a chequebook etc. Mandatory for all highschool students. The amount of students that have no idea how most of the works, myself included, is shocking. It also subsequently imparts some good old conservative fiscal responsibility in highschool students, which can never be a bad thing for the party.
Now let's imagine the spin the Liberals try to pull off against that.
Liberal: "they want to teach fiscal responsibility to highschool students so they'll vote Tory"
Tory: "thanks you Liberals for finally admitting you aren't fiscally responsible"

Thoughts on that anyone?


Some of Careers (ie. the guidance part of it) should be shifted to home rooms and replaced with personal finance. However that doesn't discount the fact that there are things that need to be taught in Careers (ie. Workplace Safety Rules, Worker's Rights, How to Write a Resume, How to succeed in an Interview etc.). As someone who only a few years ago took Careers, I would have to say those parts of the course were extremely valuable.
hamiltonguyo





Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 250
Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Anyone who thinks Tory can still lead this party has their head up their #ss. Cosmostien has this read perfectly. I do not take interest in Provincial politics usually but I think I might from now on. This province is to leftwing and I am losing to much tax money to the socialist regime.

Why can there not be a clear alternative. Left wing, right wing.

If your leftwing you tax the crap out of people and support redundant wasteful social programs and pie in the sky utopian ideals.

If your rightwing you tax less and get rid of wasteful stupid programs while trying to run an efficiant government. It's not that hard people. Clear choice is a good thing!


The thing is though its not Tory that's the problem. It's the people who told him that trying to outliberal the liberals would win an election. While personally I wanted Tory replaced, I don't think it's right to discount him for next election. I'm honestly surprised at the steps they're starting to take to get grassroots input for Policy. I would encourage Ontario Tories on this board to apply for PACs and even if they can't get on, to give input at a local level. If you just armchair quarterback you can't complain about their next platform.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if Tory will change and advocate getting rid of government waste like Fraser says then ok. Try lowering taxes and i'm in.

Quote:
If you just armchair quarterback you can't complain about their next platform.


I'll complain with my vote, or lack of one. Part of the CPC's strength is that people care. Tory and the ON PCP turned off so many small c conservatives last election that unless they do make some noise with a shift to the right we(small c's) are lost to them.

I just don't see it happening. He seems to be a weak leader.
frasermacdonald





Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 5
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Tory's future Reply with quote

If you've ever seen the guy in action I think you'd feel differently.

I agree though, the problem wasn't Tory, it was a liberal platform and a badly run campaign.

The next platform is going to be written by the grassroots, and will therefore be a clear right-wing alternative. Once you see it, you'll be back on board, I promise that. Clear alternatives involving tax cuts, sorting out the bandits in Caledonia, private healthcare delivery (that will save money, shorten waiting lines and provide choice).

Tory knows he needs a good team, not just yes-men, and an actual right-wing platform. He's the leader and we might as well rally around him. He can and will deliver by taking action on these fronts.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tory knows he needs a good team, not just yes-men, and an actual right-wing platform.


Are you guys working with the CPC. They have a great organization. If Howards group in Australia can help the CPC I think The CPC would help the PC's in Ont if asked. The last Federal election's theme was "Keep it simple stupid". 5 points, and repeat ad nauseum. Ad libbing is out the window. Try rolling in some focus groups and we are there.

How this religious school thing blew up I will never know.

Tory seems a nice guy and a man without guile. That can be very appealing, until he has to explain away a policy. In keeping with his honest persona he should have said it's a mistake and turned the corner. Honesty would have trumped Pinochio Mcguinty's act any day.

Remember to think outside the paridigm. Voters do.


Last edited by mrsocko on Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
frasermacdonald





Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:21 pm    Post subject: Tory's future Reply with quote

They will surely get all the help they can from the CPC. I think one of Tory's big problems is that since we're in government, all the talent is in Ottawa. Harper WANTS to help, though, as he sees Tory as a bridge to Toronto voters and a good honest man. Look for an A+ campaign and an A+ platform, Tory will work harder than anyone to make sure that's what we run with. The party will rally around him and with Ontarians blaming McGuinty for our tanking economy (rightly so), it will be a John Tory victory in 2011.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking about the 5 priorites comment I made.

If I were in charge of the PC I would propose the following.

1. Get rid of health tax.

2. Combine GST and PST - this would go a long way to help business and would appeal to the working man too. plus the Feds have a 5 billion dollar fund to ease the pain.

3. Take education out of property tax/40% reduction. Back this with a call to get rid of school boards to save money. Ads showing the waste of school board trustees should do the trick. Hey, you can always have a PTA.

4. Municipal spending accountability Act - find ways to hold municipal politians accountable for spending and also ways municipalites can band to gether to save on spending/purchases. Look at the shameful wasting of money in socialist Toronto.

5. 5% reduction in Government spending.

Let's see your lists of top 5 priorities. I will then put up a thread with a poll in it asking what the top 5 priorities of the ONT. PC should be.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:26 am    Post subject: Re: Tory's future Reply with quote

frasermacdonald wrote:
The party will rally around him and with Ontarians blaming McGuinty for our tanking economy (rightly so), it will be a John Tory victory in 2011.

Bollocks. Tory was the guiding mind behind Kim Campbell's election (we all recall how well that went!) and Tory was the architect of his own misfortune AND the PC platform for the last provincial election. His pledge to put the progressive back in PC was enough to turn my stomach.

If Tory had an ounce of honour, he would have submitted his resignation the day after he admitted defeat in the election. He didn't do so. If he had, people might have considered him for another leadership run. Instead, people want his head.

-Mac
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't even think it was the school thing that sunk Tory. That was policy that was defensible. What sunk him was #1, his complete lack of political instinct. #2 was the complete lack of killer instinct. I mean, did he even say the word Caledonia even once? If it was me, I would have been there holding a press conference in front of a burning railroad bridge at least once a week. There would have been headlines about protesters roughing up the leader of the opposition on the campaign trail. I would have asked every property owner in Ontario of they thought their little piece of land was safe. I do not even know if Tory knows what a campaign is, let alone how to put one together or participate in one.

Your party has been taken over by bona fide Liberals, there really is no other explanation.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are you guys working with the CPC. They have a great organization


Tory hates Harper and his team distrusts the federal Conservatives.

As I said before, at a local post-election meeting in my riding, Tory actually bad mouthed the CPC in public calling them "typical politicians who promise things they won't deliver"...this was in front of a group of local conservative activists, about half of which were on the executive of the local CPC EDA.

Not a good idea to be badmouthing the very people you need to work for you.

Tory is an idiot.
hamiltonguyo





Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 250
Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5Reputation: 49.5

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:

3. Take education out of property tax/40% reduction. Back this with a call to get rid of school boards to save money. Ads showing the waste of school board trustees should do the trick. Hey, you can always have a PTA.


I don't think that eliminating all school boards will be particularly helpfull as they provide many pooled services for schools. However definitely Catholic and Public Boards have to be integrated at the Board level and the School Board Trustees need to become volunteers rather than payed hacks.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it begins...

Quote:
Contact: Jack MacLaren

Tel: 613 832-3201

The Ontario Landowners Association meets the Reform Party of Ontario

The Ontario Landowners Association (OLA) met with the Reform Party of Ontario in Belleville on March 15 to talk about their respective priorities and policies. They found that they had many common objectives. They all agreed that the day's informal discussions were worthwhile.

The OLA places great value on being able to talk to any political party in the pursuit of good governance.

The OLA would like to point out that they support Randy Hillier, MPP who is a member of the Conservative Party. They intend to continue to work within the Conservative Party to help shape "grass roots policy" as they did at the Conservative Party Convention in London in February 2008. The three main objectives of the OLA are: property rights, less government and a review of amalgamated municipalities.

Seeking to preserve our rural identities, traditions, security, prosperity and the fundamental principles of natural justice

###

If you require more background information, please contact the following:

Jack MacLaren, President, Ontario Landowners Association:

Ph.:613 832-3201
Cell : 613 223-5534
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder can someone with insight answer a question for me? Why didn't Tory go to Caledonia during the campaign? He should have stood in front of the barricades, or some closed business, of some confiscated house, and said "Anyone who thinks that their house, their land, their business is safe, should vote for Dalton Mcguinty". Why didn't he do that?
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why didn't he do that?


Because he's an idiot.

Here is what was probably going through his mind concerning this issue:

At our post-election meeting we asked him why he was so wishy-washy on property rights.

His response:

"If I didn't the Toronto Star would kill me!"

Like I said, he's an idiot.
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A Way To Save the Ontario PCs?

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