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What kind of abortion law would you support?
A law that bans all abortions (which will never pass the Supreme Court)
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
A compromise law that would outlaw all abortions past the first trimester
25%
 25%  [ 8 ]
A law like Britans (abortions within 22 weeks)
18%
 18%  [ 6 ]
Status Quo. More abortions good. Less abortions bad
15%
 15%  [ 5 ]
Abortion only if needed to save the mother's life
25%
 25%  [ 8 ]
Abortion only for victims of sexual assault or incest
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 32

Author Message
SaintNobody





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
22 or 23 weeks.
before that it cant live without the mother and therefore is her property and not the states.


Animals are property, too, but we don't get to kill them willy-nilly.
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaintNobody wrote:
FascistLibertarian wrote:
22 or 23 weeks.
before that it cant live without the mother and therefore is her property and not the states.


Animals are property, too, but we don't get to kill them willy-nilly.


Of course we do. Do you eat meat?
SaintNobody





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure you can kill animals. Not willy-nilly. You can't just kill the animal any old way. You'll be charged with animal cruelty.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to go with mr. socko.

Although I want all abortions (except threat to a woman's life) illegal, I realize our society is not at that place, and getting restrictions that will save some lives is better then saving no lives at all.
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is suggesting babies should be aborted willy-nilly.
A doctor should preform the operation.
I just feel until the baby can live outside the mother that it should be the mothers choice as it is inside her body and cant live without her.
Sheila





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are persuading no one, certainly not me. Let's skip ahead to the time when you do-gooders have made it law. So you are making these poor women criminals now. To be tried by crown prosecutors and sentenced to life in jail. All this after you have forced them to carry their unborn child to full term. So here we sit, I thought you called yourselves conservatives, but you want the state to interfere and these women will be in jail, paid for by us the taxpayer.
And to Craig, do you really think a lot of people are going to want to adopt these children (other than crazymamma), who have physical and mental handicaps?
And to everyone else, have you ever actually talked to a woman who has had an abortion. I have, none of the women I talked to had an abortion for a "lifestyle" choice, none of them have ever used abortion as birth control. Please tell me your stories about women who have had abortions. Oh right, you have none because you've never actually talked to anyone who has had one. You self righteous bastards. And I thought your religion taught you to have tolerance. I see none.
Does anyone find it odd that Dr. Morgentaller was never convicted of a crime?
Sheila





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votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaintNobody wrote:
Sure you can kill animals. Not willy-nilly. You can't just kill the animal any old way. You'll be charged with animal cruelty.


Yes you can kill them willy-nilly. About 20 years ago when I lived in the city one of my neighbours had a pet pig. One day I heard it screaming and went outside to find it hanging upside down. The owner proceeded to cut it's throat right there in the middle of his yard. When I protested they said they were going to eat it.
After speaking to a worker at a plant for processing pigs, I found out that they just CO2 them and start cutting. Technically they are still alive.
But that's ok, we can be as cruel as we want to animals. But just don't let women have abortions, right?
donmuntean





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
No one is suggesting babies should be aborted willy-nilly.
A doctor should preform the operation.
I just feel until the baby can live outside the mother that it should be the mothers choice as it is inside her body and cant live without her.


What kind of reasoning is that? "until the baby can live outside the mother that it should be the mothers choice as it is inside her body and cant live without her"

You say "mother" not woman! That's interesting because if the woman aborts she is NOT a mother!

So in reality - the 'mothers' choice is whether or not to become pregnant - once that happens there is no question of 'choice'.

The fact is 'unwanted' pregnancy is not some form of disease to be cured in a clinic with some 'ghoulish' procedure - pregnancy is the natural result of conjugal connection.

The fact that a baby is born from that connection - unless interrupted - is a confirmation that the baby is a human being and was a human being from the moment of conception.

The premise that the choice to abort is supported by the fact that the baby human cannot live outside the woman is quite irrelevant - as one could then justify child abandonment - since after the baby is born it cannot live without the mother's care - so if the care is disregarded and she throws the baby in a dumpster - the mother is not guilty of neglect?

Abortion is child abandonment and child neglect at the most intrinsic level.

There is no question of 'choice' - abortion as a form of birth control is very disgusting and any woman who does this is a jackal! People make mistakes and the biggest mistake is to think that one can end the life of their child because they made the wrong choices...
Sheila





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votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Don, you're a single guy, why don't you go to the nearest abortion clinic, and make an honest woman out of one of them. That could be your contribution to stopping abortion.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
You are persuading no one, certainly not me. Let's skip ahead to the time when you do-gooders have made it law. So you are making these poor women criminals now. To be tried by crown prosecutors and sentenced to life in jail. All this after you have forced them to carry their unborn child to full term. So here we sit, I thought you called yourselves conservatives, but you want the state to interfere and these women will be in jail, paid for by us the taxpayer.
And to Craig, do you really think a lot of people are going to want to adopt these children (other than crazymamma), who have physical and mental handicaps?
And to everyone else, have you ever actually talked to a woman who has had an abortion. I have, none of the women I talked to had an abortion for a "lifestyle" choice, none of them have ever used abortion as birth control. Please tell me your stories about women who have had abortions. Oh right, you have none because you've never actually talked to anyone who has had one. You self righteous bastards. And I thought your religion taught you to have tolerance. I see none.
Does anyone find it odd that Dr. Morgentaller was never convicted of a crime?


Sheila its interesting that your "tolerance" is so one sided, you tolerate all sorts of indignities unto humans in the name of keeping your "ethical thought system" in place.


Let me see, you think seriously sick people should hurry up and just dies already and not place a burden on your limited medical personal, equipment, tax dollars, even though they have been paying taxes all those live long years, and give up them nice 'n fresh organs to folks who could have a "real, non-societal burdening" type life.

You think innocent children that were abused by their parents all should have been abortions, because those children, thru no fault of their own are a burden to society.

You seem to think that all people have your repugnance for non-natural children and you can't comprehend that 100's of thousands of people would gladly open their home to a child or any number of children.

You think asking a woman to take 7 or 8 months out of their life to bring a child to term is cruel and unusual punishment. Much easier for the weak, emotional mentals that are todays women to stoop and scoop.

For some bizarre reason you seem to think that there is something very drastically wrong with every child that is aborted, like it is a mutant, non-human that doesn't deserve protection from society. You think this so much in fact that you compare the slaughter of children to the slaughter of pigs, that you eat, for breakfast. I notice you seemed outraged by the way the wee little piggy met it's destiny, interesting that you would have more compassion for a dinner entrée then a child.

One of my special favorites is the old, well these kids are just going to be poor, uneducated, criminals anyways. Abortion keeps the crime rate down.

Have I ever talked to women who have had abortions? You bet you I have. I have had clients sit in my office and book their appointments to see the "good" Dr.M. because they were too busy right now trying to get baby one back from Protection to worry about a baby two.

Another case was because she was pretty sure that the daddy was of a different color. Can't be having any of those in her family now can we?

Well I really was thinking I might go back to school.

I got a new man he won't like me carrying a baby from the old boyfriend.

The My boyfriend don't want no more kids.

My boyfriend doesn't think it's his.

I don't like the daddy anymore, I ain't having that a@@hole's baby.

How am I supposed to get a boyfriend if I'm preggeers?

I just got into my old cloths

Try counseling these women that there is a huge waiting list for adoptions and what do they say?

"I could never give up my child to someone else, it's mine, that wouldn't be right"

O.K. then..................Better to get on with the dying for ego's sake I always say. That is what I call an abortion that is for convenience only.

Actually Sheila Dr. M has been convicted upon occasion, but what I find fascinating is that as of 2002 he has an annual income of over 11 Million dollars. Sweet deal for him, No?
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Hey Don, you're a single guy, why don't you go to the nearest abortion clinic, and make an honest woman out of one of them. That could be your contribution to stopping abortion.


Are you one of those women that couldn't possibly do it herself? A woman can't handle responsibility unless Man holds her dear little hand? You think these females just need a good man to put them straight? Fix their lives? heal their souls?

How very un womens lib of you.
donmuntean





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
SaintNobody wrote:
Sure you can kill animals. Not willy-nilly. You can't just kill the animal any old way. You'll be charged with animal cruelty.


Yes you can kill them willy-nilly. About 20 years ago when I lived in the city one of my neighbours had a pet pig. One day I heard it screaming and went outside to find it hanging upside down. The owner proceeded to cut it's throat right there in the middle of his yard. When I protested they said they were going to eat it.
After speaking to a worker at a plant for processing pigs, I found out that they just CO2 them and start cutting. Technically they are still alive.
But that's ok, we can be as cruel as we want to animals. But just don't let women have abortions, right?


So first of all I'm a vegetarian and I do not eat flesh. I do consume dairy and 'some' eggs but not any flesh - fish included.

That said I wonder what you're saying here in this post - "we can be as cruel as we want to animals. But just don't let women have abortions, right"

We cannot excuse one for the other. We cannot guilt and bait people like that if we are to have real change. Your juxtaposition is relevant on another level though...

Please recall the very real screams of that pig. Don't you think that the unborn child has pain and fear of some kind from the abortion experience? Babies dream in the womb! It must be a trauma to be ripped from the womb in the many ugly ways that it's done!

We are not allowed or supposed to see the images of this abortion practice - why not?

Do you have the backbone to look at the reality of this? It is with grave heart I post this link - i hope it remains here :

http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=49720

There was that fellow in Saskatchewan who was street protesting pro-choice in Regina - with huge pictures of aborted fetuses - some people were oh so horrified and he was taken to task by the nonsense human rights commission if I recall correctly. Despite what the human rights commission thought - it was his 'right' to display this graphic content in his protest.

A picture is worth a thousand words right? Imagine a video of abortion! Do the fetuses wraith around as they are excised from the womb - in pieces?

On the issue of flesh diets - people ought to spend some time finding and watching some of the MANY secretly recorded videos now found online of this slaughterhouse business. Watch them with an open heart and not just once - imagine if you got your kids to watch it - how would they view it? Seeing is leaving!

I'm not so-called over preachy about it anymore as I know how difficult it can be to stop eating flesh. I have been vegetarian since about 1988 and completely flesh free for the last 15 years.

For each of us who is capable of rational reasoning - it may take time to see these various ghoulish things in life for what they are - but - it must happen.

A 'human' society that wants to survive in the long term cannot continue to live this way - i.e.: the gorging on flesh of ever younger and younger animals and - the aborting of their own young but - that discussion is another posting another time.

Now it's not as difficult as it was in the past as there are many great products [and some not so great] that replace flesh found in most stores in most communities - some costly in comparison and some very cost effective in comparison.

One can eat textured soy chucks as a replacement - they are like little chucks of stew meat - very versatile - they are plain and are flavored variously in the cooking process.

We get 10 KG dry for 27 dollars - when hydrated that 10KG becomes about 30 KG. It's more than enough for two people for two months - having it every day!

On the nutritional content 100 grams of this soy meat is more than half pure protein 18 grams of fiber - with 110% of our daily need for iron and 75% daily need for vitamin A and 28% of our daily need for calcium! No bad fat - known as cholesterol.

When one doesn't see the carnage and we are not confronted with the horrible images of the 'process' - it's easy to disregard it and continue.

Ultimately one of the facts that made it difficult to continue to eat flesh was seeing the animals die and seeing their fear and suffering. Before the internet people were not able to get any glimpses into that industry.

We are not allowed or otherwise supposed to see the images of this slaughter practice - why not?

I really have come to understand why such a diet of death isn't compatible with who we really are meant to be! If we love life and health we'll see that we are not made to eat flesh.

Of course billions of animals are killed 'willy nilly' every year in north America - thousands at every moment - all the time - it's very sad but in any event even sicker - is this abortion practice and - for birth control.

When all is said that can be said on this subject - I do think that the unrestricted slaughter of animals and the unrestricted slaughter of unborn babies are on the same page in the same book from the same dark shelf...let's close that book...


Last edited by donmuntean on Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:36 pm; edited 4 times in total
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
So you are making these poor women criminals now.


No. They are making themselves criminals. We aren't forcing them to have abortions.

Quote:
All this after you have forced them to carry their unborn child to full term.


Oh the agony. Guess she'll keep her legs closed next time.

Quote:
I thought you called yourselves conservatives, but you want the state to interfere and these women will be in jail, paid for by us the taxpayer.


Abortion is paid for by the taxpayer. Let's make murder, assault, speeding, drugs, legal too since we are conservatives.

Quote:
And to Craig, do you really think a lot of people are going to want to adopt these children (other than crazymamma)


One of my best friends is an NDPer who is ardently prolife. He was adopted. His mother didn't want him. Things have worked out pretty good for him (considering a painful death by salting as the alternative).

Quote:
who have physical and mental handicaps?


Oh - so we should kill those with physical and mental handicaps.

Quote:
Oh right, you have none because you've never actually talked to anyone who has had one. You self righteous bastards. And I thought your religion taught you to have tolerance. I see none.


You need to cool it lady. Go drink some camomile tea or something. Seriously, your days are numbered here with that kind of language.

Quote:
Does anyone find it odd that Dr. Morgentaller was never convicted of a crime?


No. ???
donmuntean





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Hey Don, you're a single guy, why don't you go to the nearest abortion clinic, and make an honest woman out of one of them. That could be your contribution to stopping abortion.


How do you figure that I'm single? How would you know that? How is that supposed to be a constructive comment? I bet most of the women having the abortions are in relationships - liberated woman cannot have babies. Always an excuse not to go to term with the pregnancy.


Last edited by donmuntean on Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mac





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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As seems to be typical of abortion related threads, this one is getting nasty. If this continues to degenerate, I'll throw a lock on the thread.

Let's try to keep the arguments about the issue, not each other. Stop and think about your posts before hitting the "submit" button.

-Mac
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What kind of Abortion Law Would You Support

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