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Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Tankless Water Heaters Reply with quote

I support energy efficiency measures more because I want to decrease reliance on foreign oil than out of concern about global warming. Much attention has been given to CFL lights but not much has been said about tankless water heaters...

http://www.tanklesswaterheaters.ca/

They use 40% less energy than traditional water heaters and are comparable in terms of cost. They deliver hot water on demand instead of storing it for hours in tanks.

Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Tankless Water Heaters Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
I support energy efficiency measures more because I want to decrease reliance on foreign oil than out of concern about global warming. Much attention has been given to CFL lights but not much has been said about tankless water heaters...

http://www.tanklesswaterheaters.ca/

They use 40% less energy than traditional water heaters and are comparable in terms of cost. They deliver hot water on demand instead of storing it for hours in tanks.



Aren't we next oil exporters? Doesn't that mean we have no dependence on foreign oil?
plantguy





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on where you live. Pretty much anywhere east of Ontario relys on imported oil.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I say "we" I mean the royal we. I mean western nations in general.

Besides, regardless of where we get our oil from - if we reduce demand than we hurt terrorist countries by reducing the price.
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because our oil is sold to the highest bidder we both import and export a lot of oil.
Were not like Russia or Ven or Iran (thank god)
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need a pretty hefty tankless to replace a storage tank. Typical water heater is under 40,000 btu, over 40.000 you have to draw outside combustion air. A small tankless starts at around 80,000 btu, and this will not give you much hot water, only 1 gallon per minute, depending on the temperature of the incoming supply. Yes, that means colder showers in winter. The biggest tankless ones I have seen go up to 400,000 btu.
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My uncle has a tankless and he says it works just fine.

I plan on switching to one in a few years.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
You need a pretty hefty tankless to replace a storage tank. Typical water heater is under 40,000 btu, over 40.000 you have to draw outside combustion air. A small tankless starts at around 80,000 btu, and this will not give you much hot water, only 1 gallon per minute, depending on the temperature of the incoming supply. Yes, that means colder showers in winter. The biggest tankless ones I have seen go up to 400,000 btu.


Perhaps your information is dated?

http://edit.store.yahoo.com/li.....arison.pdf

7.7 GPM at a 45 degree F rise in temp. Assuming that the incoming water supply is at around 45 degrees F then you can have two hot showers running continuously.
FF_Canuck





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one small benefit to the traditional system - it provides you with an emergency supply of drinking water in case of some unforseen disaster or local emergency. The odds that anyone will require this 'feature' are low, but its worth noting.

Edit:
Quote:
Aren't we next oil exporters? Doesn't that mean we have no dependence on foreign oil?


We export lots of crude oil, but our refinery capacity is negligable - thus we are dependant on imported refined oil. If we refined our oil in country, we might find some degree on insulation from the machinations of OPEC.
kwlafayette





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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
kwlafayette wrote:
You need a pretty hefty tankless to replace a storage tank. Typical water heater is under 40,000 btu, over 40.000 you have to draw outside combustion air. A small tankless starts at around 80,000 btu, and this will not give you much hot water, only 1 gallon per minute, depending on the temperature of the incoming supply. Yes, that means colder showers in winter. The biggest tankless ones I have seen go up to 400,000 btu.


Perhaps your information is dated?

http://edit.store.yahoo.com/li.....arison.pdf

7.7 GPM at a 45 degree F rise in temp. Assuming that the incoming water supply is at around 45 degrees F then you can have two hot showers running continuously.


No my information is not dated. Here is Saskatoon, the cold water comes in at about 6 to 10C this time of year. 45F on top of that gives you 30 to 35 degrees C, which would be not hot at all. Just below body temp actually. You probably want something closer to a 90f temp rise to have a nice hot shower.

PS. Over at the Noritz site, 200,000 BTU gets you 7.3 us gallons per minute. I don't know exactly what that translates to in cubic feet per minute, but you should probably check that your residential supply will handle that. It is probably OK, because at a maximum, people can have a gas stove, furnace, dryer, and BBQ all running off their natural gas line.
Mac





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
We export lots of crude oil, but our refinery capacity is negligable - thus we are dependant on imported refined oil. If we refined our oil in country, we might find some degree on insulation from the machinations of OPEC.

Can you imagine the creeling from Suzuki and his greed, I mean, green horde if we started building refineries in Canada? You know, it might be worth it just to try to finally push him over the edge...

-Mac
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a large part of the reason that refining capacity on the continent has been stagnant for the past 30 years. Basically, it is the environmental lobby, combined with NIMBY. People complain a about the price of gas, but propose a new refinery to increase supply in their neck of the woods, and you will hear a mighty wailing and gnashing of teeth.
KPK





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Tankless Water Heaters Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
I support energy efficiency measures more because I want to decrease reliance on foreign oil than out of concern about global warming. Much attention has been given to CFL lights but not much has been said about tankless water heaters...

http://www.tanklesswaterheaters.ca/

They use 40% less energy than traditional water heaters and are comparable in terms of cost. They deliver hot water on demand instead of storing it for hours in tanks.




Don't these things have to be vented?
Craig
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Tankless Water Heaters Reply with quote

KPK wrote:
Craig wrote:
I support energy efficiency measures more because I want to decrease reliance on foreign oil than out of concern about global warming. Much attention has been given to CFL lights but not much has been said about tankless water heaters...

http://www.tanklesswaterheaters.ca/

They use 40% less energy than traditional water heaters and are comparable in terms of cost. They deliver hot water on demand instead of storing it for hours in tanks.




Don't these things have to be vented?


Any gas appliance has to be vented - so do traditional hot water heaters. Electric versions of both tankless and tanked water heaters don't need to be.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We export lots of crude oil, but our refinery capacity is negligable - thus we are dependant on imported refined oil. If we refined our oil in country, we might find some degree on insulation from the machinations of OPEC.


Shell is in the planning stages of building a refinery in Lambton County south of Sarnia. 250,000 barrels of crude will be refined a day. They have optioned 10,000 acres of very poor farmland in St.Clair township south of the chemical factories. The option runs out June 30th. First new refinery in North America since 1978.

St. Clair township has underground storage of natural gas. Wonder if there will be some carbon sequestering here.
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