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Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: No communion for pro-choice politicians Reply with quote

If you aren't baptized you aren't supposed to receive communion. It only makes sense that those who support murder shouldn't get it...

Quote:
Ottawa's Catholic archbishop says he will refuse communion to any politician who "obstinately" supports access to abortion, but only if he or she cannot be persuaded to stand down.


http://www.canada.com/ottawaci.....7d5efcaa9c
Sheila





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which only goes to prove there should be a separation between state and church. Those damn Catholics love to make up their own rules, don't they? I mean really, did God tell the archbishop to do this? I certainly wouldn't vote for a politician who IS Catholic. I'm sick of those Sunday morning Christians who will lie and cheat and steal all week long, but as long as they confess their sins, then they will go to heaven. OMG!
Abortion is a personal choice, not to be decided by any church or government. It's easy to condemn if you're a man. But unless you have walked in that woman shoes, don't judge. And no I have never had an abortion, but do know women who have. It was not an easy choice for them, but I certainly don't believe they will go to hell either.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not Catholic, and certainly don't like the Catholic faction of Christianity, but good for that archbishop.

Its so weird that the Roman Catholic Church has such a strong connection too the LPoC.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Abortion is a personal choice, not to be decided by any church or government. It's easy to condemn if you're a man. But unless you have walked in that woman shoes, don't judge. And no I have never had an abortion, but do know women who have. It was not an easy choice for them, but I certainly don't believe they will go to hell either.


Killing a living human being that you chose to create is the worst evil possible on this planet. You don't have to be a woman to understand that killing a completely innocent child is wrong.

Here are a couple of babies killed by saline...





It shouldn't be an easy choice for them. It should be the hardest choice of their lives. And if they choose wrong they will rot in hell before and after life.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for choice Shelia.

But nobody should be able to "choose" to end the life of another human being.

And a fetus/embryo has Human D.N.A., and by the time a woman realizes she is pregnant, a beating heart too.

The law should always restrict "choice" when that choice allows one to harm others.

Abortion is paramount to 1st degree murder in my opinion.
Sheila





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting to note that 90% of mammal pregnancies end in miscarriage. So that means when you (and I don't mean Craig or Riley) were a few days late with your period and thought you were pregnant, you probably were. Does "spontaneous abortion" fit into your category too?
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
It's interesting to note that 90% of mammal pregnancies end in miscarriage. So that means when you (and I don't mean Craig or Riley) were a few days late with your period and thought you were pregnant, you probably were. Does "spontaneous abortion" fit into your category too?


Are you suggesting that spontaneous miscarriage and intentional abortion are morally equal?!?

Heck, most prolife organizations are not even opposed to abortion if needed to preserve the life of the mother.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Which only goes to prove there should be a separation between state and church.


There is a separation of church and state. Religion just happens to be a voluntary dictatership. You don't like the rules you can leave anytime you want. Easy really. If politicians expect to get communion then they need to live the life the religion they have CHOSEN or accept the consequences. A distancing from the church. It will only bother those that are true believers, but then true believers would not need correction by the Bishop would they?

Quote:
Those damn Catholics love to make up their own rules, don't they? I mean really, did God tell the archbishop to do this?


Ummm,.... I believe he did when he handed down those 10 commandments tablets, one of those "rules" is Thou shalt not kill. Weird I know. Those damn churchy people.

Quote:
I certainly wouldn't vote for a politician who IS Catholic.


But what if they were black? Female? Chinese? Prejudice is ugly isn't it?

Quote:
I'm sick of those Sunday morning Christians who will lie and cheat and steal all week long, but as long as they confess their sins, then they will go to heaven.


Forgiveness is only really if the person is truly repentant. God knows a heart, you can't fake God out with words, knelling and a sorry but I'm going to continue doing the same thing.

Quote:
OMG!


Interesting,.............. keep calling he may just answer you.

Quote:
Abortion is a personal choice, not to be decided by any church or government.


Your right the church or the government has no place telling anyone they shouldn't be killing the most vulnerable of our society just because they have proven to be inconvenient for someone else.

Quote:
It's easy to condemn if you're a man. But unless you have walked in that woman shoes, don't judge.


And just whose children do you think women are choosing to kill here? Goodness who do they think they are? Men are scum wanting to protect their offspring.

Quote:
And no I have never had an abortion, but do know women who have. It was not an easy choice for them, but I certainly don't believe they will go to hell either.


Good it never should be an easy choice, will they go to hell? Who knows?
Riley W





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think almost every Pro Lifer supports abortion in the rare circumstance where its necessary to preserve the mother's life. I certainly do.

And Miscarriage and Abortion to Save the Mother's life, are not morally equal to an abortion that is purely elective.

Its wrong, but I think we should love the women who sin and commit abortions, and not condemn them.

I personally want:

Abortion to be illegal in all circumstances unless in an emergency situation where the doctor deems an abortion necessary to preserve the life of the Mother. (Giving precedence to the Mother's life over the unborn life)

I want it to be a second murder charge for anyone who kills a pregnant women.

I want the law to target the abortionists, not the women. The abortionist should be the one facing the murder charges.

I also want increased maternity leave rights, more funding for single mothers, more daycare funding....I know I am sounding a bit tax-and-spend Liberal here, but I do believe in spending $$ to make it easier for the woman to keep and raise the child.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riley W wrote:
I think almost every Pro Lifer supports abortion in the rare circumstance where its necessary to preserve the mother's life. I certainly do.


Agreed

Quote:
And Miscarriage and Abortion to Save the Mother's life, are not morally equal to an abortion that is purely elective.


Agreed

Quote:
Its wrong, but I think we should love the women who sin and commit abortions, and not condemn them.


Again I agree. We should be a helpful support for these women, there are many physical, emotional and spiritual wounds that most are not prepared for.


Quote:
I want it to be a second murder charge for anyone who kills a pregnant women.


Agreed
Sheila





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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riley W wrote:
I think almost every Pro Lifer supports abortion in the rare circumstance where its necessary to preserve the mother's life. I certainly do.

And Miscarriage and Abortion to Save the Mother's life, are not morally equal to an abortion that is purely elective.

Its wrong, but I think we should love the women who sin and commit abortions, and not condemn them.

I personally want:

Abortion to be illegal in all circumstances unless in an emergency situation where the doctor deems an abortion necessary to preserve the life of the Mother. (Giving precedence to the Mother's life over the unborn life)

I want it to be a second murder charge for anyone who kills a pregnant women.

I want the law to target the abortionists, not the women. The abortionist should be the one facing the murder charges.

I also want increased maternity leave rights, more funding for single mothers, more daycare funding....I know I am sounding a bit tax-and-spend Liberal here, but I do believe in spending $$ to make it easier for the woman to keep and raise the child.


Just so you know, abortion to save a mother's life happens all the time. Usually a woman is first seen by a general practitioner and based on medical conditions determines if an abortion is an option. The abortion is carried out at any fully equipped hospital. But not only is this done to protect a woman's physical being, it is also used to protect a woman's mental health. Does that mean that all doctors are wrong? Are they accessories to murder?
Another question you might want to ask yourself. If at any time in your life a loved one was kept alive on life support (and this will happen to you) and you know that your loved one never wanted to be kept alive on life support. If you were the one that had to choose to "pull the plug", would you? Because the doctors are telling you that there are only a few life support systems in the hospital and would be better used for someone who could survive. Your loved one is brain dead and would only be a vegetable if they ever came out of the coma. There is a time line where you would no longer be able to donate organs. If you pulled the plug, would you be a murderer?
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Usually a woman is first seen by a general practitioner and based on medical conditions determines if an abortion is an option.


Determines if it is an OPTION. Not if her health is threatened by her pregnancy. The VAST majority of women don't have abortions because their physical lives are threatened by the pregnancy - most get an abortion because their social lives are threatened by the pregnancy.

Quote:
Does that mean that all doctors are wrong? Are they accessories to murder?


All doctors who perform abortions are accessories to murder.

Quote:
If at any time in your life a loved one was kept alive on life support (and this will happen to you) and you know that your loved one never wanted to be kept alive on life support. If you were the one that had to choose to "pull the plug", would you?


Do fetuses tell their mothers that they don't want to live?
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:


Just so you know, abortion to save a mother's life happens all the time.


Actually less then 7% of current abortions are done out of concern for the Mother's health. Ironically almost the same stat as the number a partial birth abortions.

Quote:
Usually a woman is first seen by a general practitioner and based on medical conditions determines if an abortion is an option.


Most GPS refer you on to a gyno/obs after they find you with child.

Quote:
The abortion is carried out at any fully equipped hospital.


I'm sure the baby appreciates the nice sterile bucket.

Quote:
But not only is this done to protect a woman's physical being, it is also used to protect a woman's mental health.


Mental Health, you think a pregnancy will bring about some sort of Psychosis? Depression? bi-polar disorder?

Quote:
Does that mean that all doctors are wrong? Are they accessories to murder?


Less and less doctors are comfortable with doing abortions since it has been learned that babies feel pain and cry inutero. Now that a child can survive at 22 weeks, the Hippocratic oath is getting harder and harder to ignore. In the States where big bucks can be made they are finding that younger Doctors are not willing to give abortions and the pro-choices are getting concerned that the doctors that will are aging out of the system.


Quote:
Another question you might want to ask yourself. If at any time in your life a loved one was kept alive on life support (and this will happen to you) and you know that your loved one never wanted to be kept alive on life support. If you were the one that had to choose to "pull the plug", would you? Because the doctors are telling you that there are only a few life support systems in the hospital and would be better used for someone who could survive. Your loved one is brain dead and would only be a vegetable if they ever came out of the coma. There is a time line where you would no longer be able to donate organs. If you pulled the plug, would you be a murderer?


Again pressure to end someones life because it is inconvenient for someone else? How rude of folks to want to offer their loved ones a chance, especially if they have been paying their taxes and supporting the system.

I didn't know there was an expiry date on the donations of organs if the person was still alive. Oh well get on with the dying so someone else can harvest and have a real life.

Having worked in the Emerge of a busy hospital I was continually surprised by the people that walked out the doors after doctors gave them no chance. Some Medicine is but an educated guess based on probabilities.
Sheila





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mental Health, you think a pregnancy will bring about some sort of Psychosis? Depression? bi-polar disorder?

Exactly Crazymamma. Do you think that a pregnant woman would chose to end her life because she does not want the child and is not able to terminate the pregnancy? So much for the fetus if mom killed herself. Not everything is black and white. So many shades of gray (you will learn this as you get older) You have no idea of the many circumstances which lead to abortion. And yes, crazymamma there is a time line for donating organs, maybe you should ask a doctor about that. You should know this stuff, because at some point in your life, this will happen to you. I also noticed you didn't answer the question - would you pull the plug, because the doctors are telling you to? Having worked in an emergency room, would you listen to the doctors? BTW there is nothing in the ten commandments that tells an archbishop not to give communion to a politician who is ProChoice.
I can tell none of you have read the book "Freakonomics" as there is a very compelling argument in there that leads me to believe that abortion should remain legal. It's been a few years since reading it so here goes. In the 50's in the States they were expecting a lot of crime and violence and it was because abortion became legal that that didn't happen. Do you know why, because the poor, uneducated women who were getting abortions no longer had to raise children that they didn't want. And those children didn't have to grow up in poverty and become criminals.
Another question - if you were in the Canadian Forces and killed one of the Taliban, would you be a murderer?
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to be of the opinion that women are weak little numbers that can't cope with any parts of life that don't go their way. Kill their selves because they couldn't kill their baby? Emotion blackmail hogwash. She can have her temper tantrum some how else. I take it you don't like women much.

So the only choices for a pregnant woman is to keep a child she doesn't want? Raise that child in poverty? Thus making that poor child know that they were only a burden, disadvantaged to the point that they will have to turn to crime in order to eat?

Talk about living in a black and white extremes.

What ever happened to giving up a unwanted child for adoption? Just happens to be a huge line-up.

I guess all poor children turn to crime even if they have good parent models? But I guess in your world all poor parents are losers who couldn't do a decent job raising their kids.

I guess all poor children need crime as a way to out of the "Ghetto", no chance hard work and an education could do it?

As for the organs. Explain to me how being brain dead deteriorates them. They are still functioning, thus they work. About donation, you seem to think that those that are waiting for organs are more important. Not even 20% of people fill out their card to consent. The concern for pulling of the plug prematurely is one of the reasons.

Nice way to keep trying to bring in other arguments that have nothing to do with the abortion issue. Shows that you acknowledge the weakness of your stance.

As for your shades of Gray and I will learn as I get older. Charming condensation of your supposed "wisdom" to my supposed youth. ROTFLMTO!!!!!!!!!
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