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Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="lorettaw"]Sheila,You have posted so much misinformation about abortion, Christianity and life I don't know where to start. How about I don't.[quote]

Loretta, my dear, I have been posting nothing but observations and conclusions.

[quote="lorettaw"]You propose that mothers are more equal than their progeny - until the point of the child's birth. (How about after? Who is more valuable then? Does it depend upon the colour, health or sex of the child?) Some propose that born humans are more valuable than unborn humans. Some propose that wanted unborn humans are more valuable than unwanted unborns. Some propose that healthy elderly are more valuable than unhealthy elderly. Some propose that the handicapped have a sliding scale of 'value'.
Quote:


The only thing I propose is that you show some empathy for the women who are pregnant, not by choice.

[quote=lorettaw]]You argue falsely. Because someone opposes abortion does not mean they lack compassion for someone in difficulty. Each individual is responsible for their own compassion for others, however it is clearly a Christian ethic to care for your neighbour. It is not a eugenic or secular ethic. A secularist cares for those who can do something for them. No other motivation exists except self. Everything is relative to possible gain for the individual. (There being only the 'current' life to live, it is understandable...)
You believe you are a good person. What do you base this on? What purpose do you have for trying to BE 'good'?How do you judge what IS good? How do you justify being 'good' to some and not to 'others'? Just askin'.


It's pretty hard to have compassion for someone that you have never spoken to.
What do you do to care for YOUR neighbour? I shovel my neighbour's sidewalks in the winter and I look after their homes and pets when they're away. I don't do it for money or praise or for God for that matter. I do it because I want to, I like helping people. But since I didn't do it for God, then you believe it is for nothing? I'll give you another example that just happened today. I have a 90 year old customer who lives across town. I drove over and got her income tax and by the time I'm done and drive it back over for her to sign and then I mail it away for her. After all the paper and ink I've used, I'm going to come out in the minus range for income. I didn't do it for God, I didn't do it for myself (obviously), I did it for the her, my customer, because I wanted to be able to help her out. But that's just wrong, in your eyes, isn't it?


(I want to apologize to hamiltonguy in advance for the bold text - I just can't get it right, lol)
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1092
Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1
votes: 14
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila its a bloody funeral, people will say the best stuff they can under the circumstances regardless of who the person was and how they tied. If some mobster killed themselves people would still say "he loved his family" or whatever. I went to a sufi funeral where the kid had died because of booze (which muslims arent supposed to drink) and it wasnt mentioned. Everyone here disliked pedophiles and no one is defending them, but I think most christians here would say God will judge this individual.

Quote:
Has anyone tried to increase their testosterone levels?


Yes.
Its not going to change someones orientation and its sick that its been tried. The stuff they have done to people to try and 'cure' them into being hetrosexual is sick and thats why I took offense in the first place.

crazymamma that is great what you do. Im not saying someone should have an abortion, but I dont think that the state should stop them from doing so provided its before the 3rd trimester. The thing that gets me about a lot of pro-life people is they feel so storngly the baby should be born, but what happens when it is? They are off to their next preggers women.

I saw a sign today that said "dont be pressured, choose life"
LOL
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila you can clean up your quotes by doing the following;

When you are closing off a quote you type [/quote]

To start a quote you type [quote]

I had to ask someone. :wink:
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh SHeila,

I sincerely doubt that God is greatly influenced by monies paid. Every practicing Catholic of sound mind knows this. That you have the idea that heaven works this way is not exactly proof of the 'inconsistencies' of Christianity...there are many myths out there. For information on the RC curch go to the source.( as in non-dissident) sources are a bit more likely to be correct on things relating to the Church. I'm sure it works that way for other denominations - better info is gained from those who are educated in their faith and are faithful to it.
(The secular media, on the other hand, is no better at reporting on religious things than it is reporting on conservatives.)
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:

Quote:
Has anyone tried to increase their testosterone levels?


Yes.
Its not going to change someones orientation and its sick that its been tried. The stuff they have done to people to try and 'cure' them into being hetrosexual is sick and thats why I took offense in the first place.


The documentary just fascinated me, especially with the ring finger thing. I was looking at people's hands for days after that. I'm sorry that I offended you, that was not my intention. I see I am pegged as the crazy person who has a "cure" for everything now, LOL. And I like you just the way you are, don't change a thing. :D
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
Sheila you can clean up your quotes by doing the following;

When you are closing off a quote you type


To start a quote you type
Quote:


I had to ask someone. :wink:


Thank you crazymamma, it worked like a charm.
And contrary to what you may think, I admire you for the work you do. It can't be easy.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Uh SHeila,

I sincerely doubt that God is greatly influenced by monies paid. Every practicing Catholic of sound mind knows this. That you have the idea that heaven works this way is not exactly proof of the 'inconsistencies' of Christianity...there are many myths out there. For information on the RC curch go to the source.( as in non-dissident) sources are a bit more likely to be correct on things relating to the Church. I'm sure it works that way for other denominations - better info is gained from those who are educated in their faith and are faithful to it.
(The secular media, on the other hand, is no better at reporting on religious things than it is reporting on conservatives.)


Hi Loretta, I understand, but did you hear that the Vatican just came out with "four new sins"? I don't know what was wrong with the original 10. We can agree about the media. :D
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
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votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we agree about the media, you will understand that they are not very familiar with the original '10'. They therefore wouldn't have a clue how to 'report' a talk on developing our understanding of responsibility, and how that might relate to God's commandmenrts. Shallow media trying to reduce philosophy and theology to a catchy headline.
This recent media hatchet job is all over the Catholic blogoshere, with several decent commentaries (I can't recall exactly, but try 'Curt Jester' or 'American Papist' for links.)
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila,
I do not find it difficult to have compassion for people I have not spoken to.(Sometimes its easier!) Yes, this is because I see the world as an extension of God's relationship with me. He loves them, therefore I can love them. Not as a 'favour' for God, but out of love for Him. My neighbors deserve my love because they are loved by God. They have intrinsic value because He gave them value.

I did not make any assumptions or judgements, but asked questions, which you really haven't answered. What DO you base your idea of 'good' on? Are you kind to your neighbor only because she is your neighbor, or because she is worthy, objectively, of your kindness? Is she? How?
gc





Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
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votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
I do care about the starving people in Africa(and other places) That is why I despise the fact that the UN would rather spend a billion dollars killing them through abortion than feeding them...

Ah, but do you care about them as much as you care about yourself or your family?? In other words, are their lives just as valuable as your own, or the lives of your family? Can you honestly say that if it were your family starving to death that you would act in the exact same way?
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Loretta, I treat all people equally regardless of their age, sex or nationality. But maybe you're right, I'm just a horrible monster because I don't do it for God. I don't volunteer for any organizations, I used to canvass for Heart and Stroke and help out at fundraisers for various organizations. Now I just do random acts of kindness. Like last summer in the parking lot at the grocery store when a child was stuck in the shopping cart. She had her leg jammed, and it wouldn't come out. I had just bought some shampoo and so I rushed over to my cart and grabbed it and rubbed it all over her leg and it slid out. I didn't know these people and still don't, but I do like to help, if I can. I haven't been in insurance for over 3 years now, but I still have people phoning when they get into accidents, asking me what to do. I don't make any money off of these phone calls and I certainly don't do it for myself, but your right, maybe that's just not good enough.

Last edited by Sheila on Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
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votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc

I'm not really understanding your point. Maybe you could clarify?

Sheila,
I have not asked for you to justify your actions, which I would be happy to know nothing about. I asked for your personal philosophy, so I can understand where your opinions or judgements are coming from. I specifically have not made claims that your actions are worthy or not worthy according to whether you 'do them for God' or not. That is coming from where?

That I state that I try to act according to my faith, is not a judgement on you. I do not hold others 'responsible' to behave as I think I should. This doesn't mean that I don't engage in exploration of areas where there may be agreement and cooperation in spite of differences in belief.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
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votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loretta;

I don't know if I'm reading you right but I have to say that I know many non-Christians who have an outstanding set of values and ethics that thy put into their daily lives. On the flip side unfortunately I know many a "God fearing church goers" that seem to think that being able to quote the bible and show up for absolution makes them a candidate for heaven.

Some of my atheist friends have the strongest code of ethics and sense of right and wrong that I have been privileged to see. Charities and good works are not just the bailiwick of the churchers, but some excellent ones have been adopted for the mere reason of seeing a wrong and trying to help their fellow man.

In my opinion, when the Rapture does come the churches will still be half full of very bemused people the following Service. (and probably the prisons will be half empty)
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loretta said "Each individual is responsible for their own compassion for others, however it is clearly a Christian ethic to care for your neighbour. It is not a eugenic or secular ethic. A secularist cares for those who can do something for them. No other motivation exists except self. Everything is relative to possible gain for the individual. (There being only the 'current' life to live, it is understandable...)
You believe you are a good person. What do you base this on? What purpose do you have for trying to BE 'good'?How do you judge what IS good? How do you justify being 'good' to some and not to 'others'? Just askin'."

Hi Loretta, you did ask and I answered - eventhough you didn't want to hear it. You said I have no other motivation besides self and I have proved you wrong. Now tell me what you do for your neighbours? And is it only your Christian neighbours that you do things for?
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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votes: 14
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw, to most individual humans all lives arent equal because we look at things subjectively. To me my family is going to be more important than some random family.
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