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lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop,

It was intentionally provocative. I wanted to make it personal. Bring it home.
Many people advocate abortion, without relating to it personally, as in 'its o.k. for YOUR grandchildren to be murdered'.
I don't know if Sheila has grandchildren, or even if she's a woman, or has children at all. I have a grandchild, and abortion is personal to me. I don't think its 'offensive' to ask people to take it personally. It IS life and death.
It's people who don't take it personally that are teaching it as a 'human right' in our public schools etc...
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
Sheila wrote:
hamiltonguyo wrote:
Oh and I'd appreciate if you didn't use bold text for everything.

It contributes nothing to the debate but to show that you've lost and can't think of any way out but to attempt RIGHTEOUS OUTRAGE AGAINST EVIL MEN(tm)


No, I just can't get it to work right, lol.
Wow I got a red star minus .8 for reputation, lol. Thank you, so very Christian of you all. And all because I have a different opinion. Love your fellow man. Makes me wonder what you would do to me if I was a liberal, LOL.
BTW I love you all, it's been fun.


Do not mistake me Sheila,

I didn't give you negative reputation because your opinions differ from mine, I gave it to you because your a bigot.

For some bizarre reason you seem to think that being a Christian makes someone a doormat, that we have no right to discern or censor when someone does or says anything vile or despicable.

Here are a few examples of your posts for illustration proposes:

Your telling Fas/Lib and Riley that maybe increased doses of testosterone could cure them of their homosexuality.Ridiculous, ignorant bigotry.

If Pedophiles can go to heaven why not homosexuals too?

I would never vote for a politician that was Catholic. Bigotry.

Men don't know anything about women because they haven't walked a mile in their shoes. Sexist

All Christians think they are better then non-Christians. Bigotry.

Abortion is good because mostly poor uneducated women have them and this helps keep the crime level down because any kids they would have given birth to would be poor uneducated criminals. Vile despicable bigotry.

Now these are just a few things that you have posted that I as a human being take exception to. Don't be mad at me because I wont tolerate this sort of nonsense, I am just being the mirror to show you what I see. I don't know if you thought you had found a home away from home so to speak, this being a conservative forum, where you thought these types of "opinions" would be acceptable. But I would like to inform you that I can think of no place that should tolerate this sort of intolerance and vile bigotry you have spewed in any way, shape or form. I feel free to point this out simply as I think "just letting it go", not saying anything, gives this type of nonsense an indirect seal of approval. Something I am not willing to do.


Hi Crazymamma, I am so glad you looked into that Depra-crap or whatever it's called.
As for your examples of my bad behaviour:
1) I never said that increased testosterone could cure them of homosexualtiy. I said I saw a documentary that suggested that testosterone in-vitro in all likelihood does determine how you are today. Has anyone tried to increase their testosterone levels?
2) I said that at the funeral, my sources tell me that the pedophile went to heaven. I don't think that's right, but I wasn't at the funeral, so I couldn't stand up and say so.
3) I would never vote for a Catholic, it's true. They like to change all of God's laws to suit their purpose. Yesterday I heard that the Vatican just released "4 new sins". One of them was polluting, btw.
4) All people (not just men) on this thread do not know how a woman, who has had an abortion, feels because other than hamiltonguy, there has been no Christians on here that have shown empathy.
5) You have proven this over and over again.
6) That was in the book "Freakonomics", maybe you should read it.
7) And I am the mirror showing you how small minded your religion has kept you.

Craig, you know I'm a good person, so you can stop the satan crap. (And I can't remember the last time I went to the bar) I also know that this is dear to your heart, as you have a newborn in the house, so I know looking at your baby, you could never imagine getting rid of him. And I feel the same.
For everyone else, let me say I am married with three beautiful, healthy children and I have NEVER considered having an abortion. I do know people who have. None of them have ever used abortion as a means of birth control. None of them have ever had more than one abortion. But you know what, shit happens, and these women found themselves in a situation where they felt that abortion was their only option. With their medical doctor (not an abortionist) they proceeded to go through with it. I refuse to judge these women, like you have. And again, if my friends were ever in a situation where they felt that abortion was their only option (maybe their usual birth control didn't work), I would stand behind them, as a friend, and back them on whatever they decided. I would also encourage them to give the baby up for adoption. But it will be their choice along with their doctor. I love my friends, no matter what. I would never use religion as a tool against them.


Last edited by Sheila on Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Bleatmop,

It was intentionally provocative. I wanted to make it personal. Bring it home.
Many people advocate abortion, without relating to it personally, as in 'its o.k. for YOUR grandchildren to be murdered'.
I don't know if Sheila has grandchildren, or even if she's a woman, or has children at all. I have a grandchild, and abortion is personal to me. I don't think its 'offensive' to ask people to take it personally. It IS life and death.
It's people who don't take it personally that are teaching it as a 'human right' in our public schools etc...


Really. And what is your personal relationship to abortion other than the fact you have a grandchild? Do you even know of anyone who has ever had an abortion? Have you ever talked to anyone who has had an abortion? Where is your relationship to abortion, other than you are against it?
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
You can kill to defend yourself.


Hi Craig, could you please quote the passage from the bible that says this.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Craig wrote:
You can kill to defend yourself.


Hi Craig, could you please quote the passage from the bible that says this.


I'm no expert, but I do know that the commandment frequently misquoted as 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' arose from a mistranslation, and actually means 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' in the original Hebrew. So, one could argue that there is an implicit endorsement of self-defense due to that distinction.
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1092
Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1
votes: 14
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before the baby is born it is inside of the mother. The mother and not the state should have control of the mothers body to a certain extent, that is also a human/womens rights issue. Before 23 weeks the baby could not live with support outside the womb, so to that point I still think its the womens property and not the governments.

Plus all you pro-like people, what exactly are you planning to do with all these kids? Have you ever adopted or been a foster parent?
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fas/Lib,

I used to be in Child protection, I left and became a Foster Parent, in the beginning of my career as a foster parent I dealt in only special needs babies such as crack addicted babies and FASE. Now my hubby and I have 7 children with various difficulties arising from their life experience ranging from complications due to Mom's serious drug uses during pregnancy, one child whose mother was self medicating her schizophrenia and kept her child in a closet for two years because it had a cleft pallet and she thought he was the spawn of Satan. They all have their stories. they all have their medical, emotional and mental challenges. But one thing they have in common is a mom that didn't have an abortion and for that those women have my undying love, support and respect.
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila,

You have posted so much misinformation about abortion, Christianity and life I don't know where to start. How about I don't.

My connection to abortion is this. I come from a family of ten children. I have eight children. Medical science and planned parenthood agree that each child is HUMAN FROM CONCEPTION. At no point in their development are they not HUMAN. I believe all humans are created equal. Absolutely equal. I do not believe in creating a false rubrik of human value.

You propose that mothers are more equal than their progeny - until the point of the child's birth. (How about after? Who is more valuable then? Does it depend upon the colour, health or sex of the child?) Some propose that born humans are more valuable than unborn humans. Some propose that wanted unborn humans are more valuable than unwanted unborns. Some propose that healthy elderly are more valuable than unhealthy elderly. Some propose that the handicapped have a sliding scale of 'value'.

The whole concept of 'some' being more valuable than 'others' is possible because people like you have accepted it. You have accepted that humans are not equal.

I do not accept this. It is dangerous to all society (check historical uses for eugenic proposals). It is therefor my duty as a HUMAN BEING interested in justice to fight against abortion and other eugenic tendencies of our society.

You argue falsely. Because someone opposes abortion does not mean they lack compassion for someone in difficulty. Each individual is responsible for their own compassion for others, however it is clearly a Christian ethic to care for your neighbour. It is not a eugenic or secular ethic. A secularist cares for those who can do something for them. No other motivation exists except self. Everything is relative to possible gain for the individual. (There being only the 'current' life to live, it is understandable...)

You believe you are a good person. What do you base this on? What purpose do you have for trying to BE 'good'?How do you judge what IS good? How do you justify being 'good' to some and not to 'others'? Just askin'.
gc





Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4
votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
The whole concept of 'some' being more valuable than 'others' is possible because people like you have accepted it. You have accepted that humans are not equal.

I do not accept this.

So, someone dying in Africa because of poverty (starvation, disease, etc.) is equal to your own life, or the life of a family member? Well, since I'm pretty sure you wouldn't let yourself (or your family) starve to death, and would do anything you could to prevent that from happening, I'm sure you'll be giving ALL your money away to the poor to save as many lives as possible???
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Reputation: 17.5Reputation: 17.5
votes: 10

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:

You know you just may have hit on a weakness in my rationale. I honesty haven't done much research into how certain types of birth control work. In the case of depo-provera I had always understood that it is a hormone that prevents ovulation. Regardless, I do now understand that some do make the uterus an inhospitable place for the egg to implant. For the time being I will take your word for it, untill I have time to research it for myself (I suppose some one with an extreme point of view could make the case that this a form of abortion.) Does my accepting this make me a hypocrite? That may be so,..

I guess we all just have a different line in the sand.


Fair enough. To my knowledge, an IUD and The Pill do not prevent conception. Depo shots (I forgot about them) stop ovulation, so wouldn't cross your line in the sand, if I am understanding you correctly. Rhythm methods (trying to avoid the implantation window) do not stop conception. Sterilization methods (tubal ligation, vasectomy) would prevent conception, but both have known failure rates that would be unacceptable to rely upon if you believe life begins at conception, IMO. Hope this helps?
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Reputation: 17.5Reputation: 17.5
votes: 10

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Bleatmop,

It was intentionally provocative. I wanted to make it personal. Bring it home.
Many people advocate abortion, without relating to it personally, as in 'its o.k. for YOUR grandchildren to be murdered'.
I don't know if Sheila has grandchildren, or even if she's a woman, or has children at all. I have a grandchild, and abortion is personal to me. I don't think its 'offensive' to ask people to take it personally. It IS life and death.
It's people who don't take it personally that are teaching it as a 'human right' in our public schools etc...


I'm aware that it was intentionally provocative. That's why I said it was uncalled for.

From the rules:
Quote:
* While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters. Depending on the severity of the offense you may be warned, temporarily banned, or permanently banned.


These rules are part of the reasons why I love this forum.
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bleatmop,

I did not 'contravene' the rules. I asked a question with a purpose. It was not gratuitous ugliness, or slanderous accusation, or name-calling. At most it may have caused some 'uncomfortableness' as one thought of their own inconsistencies.


gc

I do care about the starving people in Africa(and other places) That is why I despise the fact that the UN would rather spend a billion dollars killing them through abortion than feeding them.

Every person must do what in their conscience they feel they can reasonably do while still adequately caring for those they are directly responsible for. This means more than just giving money or goods. It also means standing up for what is RIGHT, including the right to life. As Christ said, the poor will always be with us. Still, if we started with acknowledging their right to live, who knows how far we could go to alleviate their unnecessary sufering?

Keep throwing those red herrings...
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Quote:
I said that at the funeral, my sources tell me that the pedophile went to heaven. I don't think that's right, but I wasn't at the funeral, so I couldn't stand up and say so


Your lack of understanding of Christianity is amazing. Did these people see the pedophiles ghost leave his body and get a heavenly escort or are they just guessing he went to heaven.

I must commend you on your recent posts thou. It is nice of you to respond in a respectful manner to some of the slams you are receiving.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Craig wrote:
You can kill to defend yourself.


Hi Craig, could you please quote the passage from the bible that says this.


I'm no expert, but I do know that the commandment frequently misquoted as 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' arose from a mistranslation, and actually means 'Thou Shalt Not Murder' in the original Hebrew. So, one could argue that there is an implicit endorsement of self-defense due to that distinction.


Could you please tell me the difference between Kill and Murder?
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Sheila wrote:
Quote:
I said that at the funeral, my sources tell me that the pedophile went to heaven. I don't think that's right, but I wasn't at the funeral, so I couldn't stand up and say so


Your lack of understanding of Christianity is amazing. Did these people see the pedophiles ghost leave his body and get a heavenly escort or are they just guessing he went to heaven.

I must commend you on your recent posts thou. It is nice of you to respond in a respectful manner to some of the slams you are receiving.


Thank you mrsocko, I take it with a grain of salt.
The pedophile at the time of his death was an upstanding member of the community. I am positive that the reverend performing the funeral service had no idea. It was a small village and everybody knew. That was one of the reasons I did not attend. But come to think of it, I have never been to ANY funeral where the deceased did not go to heaven. Even my friend's son who committed suicide (Catholic) paid the Church enough money so he could go to heaven. Sad, but true. I am not making this stuff up.
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