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I a Human Embryo Human
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 6 ]
No
50%
 50%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 12

Author Message
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Perhaps, but then someone who was concerned about murder would err on the side of caution, and not take the pill. You don't actually know if the egg and sperm 'get together' until quite a bit later, but the possibility is there.


Thank you Bleatmop for clarifying that for me. So taking the morning after pill may not be murder after all. Loretta, if a woman did not want her baby, don't you think this is the most humane way of getting rid of it? Because technically the union of sperm and egg may not have happened yet? What does a flat or round earth have to do with anything?
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila,
That would be like knowing someone MAY be hiding in the closet, and shooting it up on the chance that they aren't. You would be trying to fool yourself. What is the point of taking the pill? To eliminate the chance of life, whether or not it has begun.

This is humane how?

Your approach is relativistic. You believe that the 'comfort' of the mother is of higher value than the life of the child. I don't agree.
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Reputation: 17.5Reputation: 17.5
votes: 10

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Perhaps, but then someone who was concerned about murder would err on the side of caution, and not take the pill. You don't actually know if the egg and sperm 'get together' until quite a bit later, but the possibility is there.


Sure, if you believe life begins at fertilization, then one would err on the side of caution. I was just clarifying this for you.

Quote:
Sheila,
Since the 'morning after' would be 'after' conception , that would make using a 'morning after' pill abortion in fact and intent.


It wouldn't necessarily be in fact or in intent. Of course, by your standards, anyone having sex outside of the implantation window would be committing murder as well, or at least potentially committing murder.
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Life beginning at fertilization is accepted scientific fact , not 'just' belief. This is a fact even the major abortion advocates no longer refute. They acknowledge they kill humans. They just don't give those humans a value.

Sex is not murder. Killing of humans is murder.

If you knowingly take an action that MAY kill, you are responsible for that death, since it could be anticipated.
urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 307
Reputation: 16.8Reputation: 16.8
votes: 5

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ffcanuck wrote:
I've heard many people (including members of this board) suggest in the past that allowing and publicly funding abortion is an anti-poverty and anti-crime measure... I find that only slightly more believable than the idea that it is an overt attempt to perform racial cleansing.

The last time I checked, the users of public clinics were disproportionately white, college educated, and middle or upper class (this was years ago - this might have changed). Draw your own conclusions.

Off Topic- Are you an administrator or founder of this forum?
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

urbanmonk wrote:
ffcanuck wrote:
I've heard many people (including members of this board) suggest in the past that allowing and publicly funding abortion is an anti-poverty and anti-crime measure... I find that only slightly more believable than the idea that it is an overt attempt to perform racial cleansing.

The last time I checked, the users of public clinics were disproportionately white, college educated, and middle or upper class (this was years ago - this might have changed). Draw your own conclusions.

Off Topic- Are you an administrator or founder of this forum?


That (ffcanuck) was me during a brief period when I could not log in under this ID. I am neither an admin nor a founder, though I did join (I think) on one of the first days of operation.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Life beginning at fertilization is accepted scientific fact , not 'just' belief. This is a fact even the major abortion advocates no longer refute. They acknowledge they kill humans. They just don't give those humans a value.
Sex is not murder. Killing of humans is murder.
If you knowingly take an action that MAY kill, you are responsible for that death, since it could be anticipated.


Hi Loretta, so you acknowledge scientific facts? What if an obviously pregnant woman were to come up to you and tell you that she got pregnant through an immaculate conception. Would you be tempted to get her hauled off to the looney bin? Of course you would because we all know how conception starts. So why do you believe this happened over 2,000 years ago? I find it ironic that you use science for your convenience.
urbanmonk





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 307
Reputation: 16.8Reputation: 16.8
votes: 5

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:


That (ffcanuck) was me during a brief period when I could not log in under this ID. I am neither an admin nor a founder, though I did join (I think) on one of the first days of operation.

thanks :)
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got news for you Sheila, God Created Science. He likes it. I like it too. Anything that helps me to know God's glory better is great by me!

Lots (and lots) of recognized and famous scientists also believe in Immaculate Conception.
Funny thing about the Creator - OMNIPOTENT.
The belief in the Immaculate Conception is very logical.Its based on the total consistancy of God. Read up on the theology of it some day . (I would suggest reading someone credible, like an actual faithful Catholic theologian- say a Pope- since they are most likely to be able to accurately explain Catholic theology.)

I get the impression that you never actually read what I post to you, judging from your replies.

By the way, those striving to protect the lives of all humans have been using science, against deniers, for a long time. Finally, its just too embarassing for abortion advocates to keep on with the 'its not human' foil. They've given it up. They admit who they are. They are humans who judge other humans to be without value.
That they can openly admit this and still garner support speaks volumes for our society...
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Reputation: 17.5Reputation: 17.5
votes: 10

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Life beginning at fertilization is accepted scientific fact , not 'just' belief. This is a fact even the major abortion advocates no longer refute. They acknowledge they kill humans. They just don't give those humans a value.

Sex is not murder. Killing of humans is murder.

If you knowingly take an action that MAY kill, you are responsible for that death, since it could be anticipated.


By your standards, having sex outside the implantation window would be potential murder. Fertilization could happen, but not implantation. Without implantation, there is no baby.

lorettaw wrote:
Perhaps, but then someone who was concerned about murder would err on the side of caution...
lorettaw





Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6Reputation: 3.6
votes: 1
Location: cayman/pei

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

o.k., I see what you're saying.

.
Fertilization makes the baby. The implantation is necessary to maintain the life that exists. If there were no life, the implantation would be pointless. In other words, the life exists , begins , as a totally separate being from the mother, and then through the implantation the mother sustains the life - just like she sustains it after birth by continuing to feed and nurture. To end the life that exists she must abdicate her role as a mother/sustainer of life. Its a big deal. She in effect rejects herself as well as the baby. Double tragedy.
Bleatmop





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Reputation: 17.5Reputation: 17.5
votes: 10

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
o.k., I see what you're saying.

.
Fertilization makes the baby. The implantation is necessary to maintain the life that exists. If there were no life, the implantation would be pointless. In other words, the life exists , begins , as a totally separate being from the mother, and then through the implantation the mother sustains the life - just like she sustains it after birth by continuing to feed and nurture. To end the life that exists she must abdicate her role as a mother/sustainer of life. Its a big deal. She in effect rejects herself as well as the baby. Double tragedy.


No, that isn't what I'm trying to say. But that's ok. I'm willing to let this drop.
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