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I a Human Embryo Human
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 6 ]
No
50%
 50%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 12

Author Message
lorettaw





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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The last time I checked, the users of public clinics were disproportionately white, college educated, and middle or upper class (this was years ago - this might have changed). Draw your own conclusions.


There is quite a difference between Canada and the US. In Canada abortion is primarily used by people who could afford to pay for their own, and are educated enough to avoid pregnancy. Its free and convenient. Perhaps it is justice that they later have difficulty conceiving...abused freedom has consequences.



gc,

The humanity of a fetus is not questionable, and it certainly isn't a matter of opinion. How we treat other human beings is a matter of choice, as are all our behaviors - legal or not. Choosing to kill the weakesk and most vulnerable,(not just babies, but handicapped, the ill and the elderly) who in a just society would be protected, is abuse of our freedom. IMO it is also self-destructive in a personal way and for all of society.
gc





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:

gc,

The humanity of a fetus is not questionable, and it certainly isn't a matter of opinion.

If the humanity of a fetus is not a matter of opinion, then perhaps you can tell me exactly at what point a human becomes a human, and why would you choose that exact moment?
lorettaw





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc


Doctors, scientists and Planned Parenthood agree - there is NO POINT at which the fetus is not HUMAN. It never is something else. A fetus is human from conception. You will find that a pig is also a pig from conception. It happens to be how we grow.

Now, not all people will admit this, depending on their agenda, for example , the Mexican 'doctor' who clains that we are apes until we 'become human' at some point PAST where he wishes the abortion limit to be. However, he is counting on the ignorance of others and his own political power to do as he pleases.

If Planned Parenthood recognizes the humanity of a fetus from conception it seems ridiculous that abortion advocates would still use such a lame argument.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on Loretta:

To guys like GC the unborn baby is not human, only a political inconvenience. Just how come a wanted child in the womb is never called a fetus?

Hey GC as a experiment next time you see a pregnant woman go up to here and ask how her pregnancy is going Then ask her if she is carrying a baby or a fetus.

Don't do it if the husband is around cause he will punch your lights out, although I've heard a pregnant women can punch hard enough to knock out a light weight Liberal.
gc





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Doctors, scientists and Planned Parenthood agree - there is NO POINT at which the fetus is not HUMAN. It never is something else. A fetus is human from conception. You will find that a pig is also a pig from conception. It happens to be how we grow.

So the exact moment is the moment of conception?
Now, why did you choose that exact moment over any other moment?
gc





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Hey GC as a experiment next time you see a pregnant woman go up to here and ask how her pregnancy is going Then ask her if she is carrying a baby or a fetus.

Whether the pregnant woman views what she is carrying as a baby or a fetus is her choice, not mine.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So the exact moment is the moment of conception?
Now, why did you choose that exact moment over any other moment?


Why all the stupid questions? As soon as the sperm enters the egg it becomes a human embryo. It's not a warthog embryo. I think the only person who would not agree that the fertilized egg is a Human embryo is you.

Someone add a poll to this thread.

When the Human Sperm enters the Human Egg, the fertilized egg becomes.

A) a Human embryo

B) a warthog embryo

c) a car

D) a pencil
gc





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
I think the only person who would not agree that the fertilized egg is a Human embryo is you.

Nice strawman. The issue was whether it is a human, not whether it is a human embryo :roll:
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, But not my words.


There is only one logical rational sane position in this debate, and that is that human life begins at conception. This is a very simple point that gets swept aside by those who don't like it, but it is still the truth. Since human beings have intrinsic value just by being, they deserve our protection from the beginning of life until it's natural end. Any other position denies the reality, that since we can never know for sure when life begins in the womb, the only safe place to draw that line, is at conception.

Anything beyond that, and you could be wrong. That is too great a risk to take.
lorettaw





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So the exact moment is the moment of conception?
Now, why did you choose that exact moment over any other moment?


Firstly, I didn't 'choose' it. (Contrary to the religion of secular humanism, man is not God, and cannot create himself)

It is the beginning. Some basic biology applies here.


I think you may be trying out the latest distinction of desperate abortion advocates - the distinction between a human being and a human person. Now, before you get in too far, be sure you can describe what a person is, and based on what .


Planned Parenthood is much more straightforward. They know what a human being is, they just don't agree that all humans are equal. They believe that a born human is more equal than an unborn human. They also , according to some of their literature, believe some unborn humans are more equal than other unborn humans. I think we can include the Canadian Medical Assoc. in the group of people who believe in inequality among humans. The CMA will even go so far as to say that they are the ones to decide which humans should live, born or unborn - old or young. (in court right now trying to set a precedent for exactly that)

In case you think this 'abortion' thing is something that the 'religious' people drag out to stir up controversey, and isn't relavent to your life and death, think agiain. The same people that will defend the right of humans to be born will defend your right to live until you die - without someone else killing you. It just may be importantto you some day...
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think this is all subjective. :P
gc





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
There is only one logical rational sane position in this debate, and that is that human life begins at conception.

A great way to have a debate is to call anyone who disagrees with you insane :roll:
Quote:
Any other position denies the reality, that since we can never know for sure when life begins in the womb, the only safe place to draw that line, is at conception.

Anything beyond that, and you could be wrong. That is too great a risk to take.

If it's too great a risk to take, then we should be even more cautious. We should treat every sperm like a human being, since we don't know for sure...
gc





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorettaw wrote:
Firstly, I didn't 'choose' it.

Then how did you come up with that answer?
Quote:
It is the beginning. Some basic biology applies here.

How so?
Quote:
The same people that will defend the right of humans to be born will defend your right to live until you die - without someone else killing you. It just may be importantto you some day...

That's just silly, I'm just as willing to defend for anyone's right to live (if they choose so) as any anti-abortionist out there...in many cases more so.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
crazymamma wrote:
There is only one logical rational sane position in this debate, and that is that human life begins at conception.

A great way to have a debate is to call anyone who disagrees with you insane :roll:
Quote:
Any other position denies the reality, that since we can never know for sure when life begins in the womb, the only safe place to draw that line, is at conception.

Anything beyond that, and you could be wrong. That is too great a risk to take.

If it's too great a risk to take, then we should be even more cautious. We should treat every sperm like a human being, since we don't know for sure...

:roll:
lorettaw





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc
I'm hoping you can do better tthan 'oh yeah! says you!'.

Facts are not opinion. Do your research. The scientists have ALREADY SETTLED THE QUESTION. Planned Parenthood doesn't use the 'when does it become human' debate anymore because IT MAKES THEM LOOK STUPID AND BACKWARD and they like to use science when it benefits them.

The more society supports the philosophy that some humans are more equal than others, the more EVERYONE's life is at risk. The inclination to develop rubriks for determining the value of someones life is increasing, and it has been built on the foundation of abortion , conditioning for eugenics. That was the plan , and its working.
Check out the history of Planned Parenthood and the writings of Margaret Sanger. Closer to home, check out the roots of our wonderful 'free' health system and Tommy Douglas' personal writings on the subject.

Its hard to protect yourself from someone ele's determination that your life is not valuable enough , if the right for THEM to decide is enshrined in law.

These are not 'silly' mutterings of a conspiracy nut. They are things easily verified by research into the writings of the people behind the movement. Research into the development of the law, and the acceptance by society of the 'next' and then the 'next' thing that erodes even further our grip on understanding THE INNATE VALUE OF BEING HUMAN. Once that knowledge is gone, that there IS value in human life, who's life is safe?

The powerful will rule according to their interests. (gc- will they find you interesting?)

Your support for 'life' for some, but not others means that you do not understand the basic truth that gives your own life value. YOU'RE HUMAN - YOU HAVE VALUE. (Remember, we already know what human IS)

Here is where a belief in the Creator is helpful to comprehension. It actually is the existence of God, the Judeo/Christian God, that gives that innate value to our lives. Without belief in God, what do we base our own value on? Our value then becomes subjective - instead of 'we are valuable to God, because He created us and He has said so' we are left with only the value that others see in us. Power as the base instead of LOVE.

Looks like we're headed for a 'Brave New World'. Gird your loins.
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