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Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Artist hanged herself after aborting her twins Reply with quote

Two tragedies...

Quote:
An artist killed herself after aborting her twins when she was eight weeks pregnant, leaving a note saying: "I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum."

Emma Beck was found hanging at her home in Helston, Cornwall, on Feb 1 2007. She was declared dead early the following day - her 31st birthday.

Her suicide note read: "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies: they need me, no-one else does."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....ist122.xml
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been to Helston, nice place. It is close to Goonhilly Downs, where whats his name first beamed radio signals across the Atlantic. I did some work at the earth station there.
peter_puck





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:09 pm    Post subject: abortion Reply with quote

Quote:

Two tragedies...

Quote:
An artist killed herself after aborting her twins when she was eight weeks pregnant, leaving a note saying: "I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum."

Emma Beck was found hanging at her home in Helston, Cornwall, on Feb 1 2007. She was declared dead early the following day - her 31st birthday.

Her suicide note read: "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies: they need me, no-one else does."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....ist122.xml


I don't mean to be insensitive here, but I don't see the point of your post. This lady was likely suffering from some sort of mental illness and died as a result. The same can be said for many women who have not had an abortion. I don't think that her suicide note should become part of the abortion debate.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: abortion Reply with quote

peter_puck wrote:
Quote:

Two tragedies...

Quote:
An artist killed herself after aborting her twins when she was eight weeks pregnant, leaving a note saying: "I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum."

Emma Beck was found hanging at her home in Helston, Cornwall, on Feb 1 2007. She was declared dead early the following day - her 31st birthday.

Her suicide note read: "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies: they need me, no-one else does."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....ist122.xml


I don't mean to be insensitive here, but I don't see the point of your post. This lady was likely suffering from some sort of mental illness and died as a result. The same can be said for many women who have not had an abortion. I don't think that her suicide note should become part of the abortion debate.


Of course, any woman who would have such deep emotional regret about killing her twin children MUST be mentally unbalanced.
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is truly a sick world.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: abortion Reply with quote

peter_puck wrote:
Quote:

Two tragedies...

Quote:
An artist killed herself after aborting her twins when she was eight weeks pregnant, leaving a note saying: "I should never have had an abortion. I see now I would have been a good mum."

Emma Beck was found hanging at her home in Helston, Cornwall, on Feb 1 2007. She was declared dead early the following day - her 31st birthday.

Her suicide note read: "I told everyone I didn't want to do it, even at the hospital. I was frightened, now it is too late. I died when my babies died. I want to be with my babies: they need me, no-one else does."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....ist122.xml


I don't mean to be insensitive here, but I don't see the point of your post. This lady was likely suffering from some sort of mental illness and died as a result. The same can be said for many women who have not had an abortion. I don't think that her suicide note should become part of the abortion debate.


PARDON??? She said in her note that the reason she killed herself was BECAUSE she had an abortion. You don't think that is relevant?!?

That is like saying that a note left by a murder suspect stating that he committed the murder isn't relevant.

I seriously don't get your post.
Matt





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: abortion Reply with quote

Craig wrote:

PARDON??? She said in her note that the reason she killed herself was BECAUSE she had an abortion. You don't think that is relevant?!?

That is like saying that a note left by a murder suspect stating that he committed the murder isn't relevant.

I seriously don't get your post.


Exact same analogy I was going to use
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a letter in the National post,

Wednesday February 6 th 2008.

I had abortions when I was younger. I was lied to about fetal development and told it was just a clump of tissue. As a young vibrant woman, independent and aloof, it was made to be a quick, easy out. I had no idea my babies had a beating heart by three weeks, arms, legs, fingers and toes by eight weeks. My so-called "safe and legal" abortion landed me with an infection, damaged cervix and badly scarred uterus. Doctors never told me about the 28 studies linking breast cancer to induced abortion. They never told me about the years of guilt, remorse and deep sorrow for having my own children killed.

Over the years I have spoken to hundreds of women who are suffering from their legal abortions physically, emotionally and spiritually. It hurts women, and kills children.


Denise Mountenay, founder of Canada Silent No More, Morinville, Alt.
Sheila





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suicide is a cry for help. This poor young woman obviously had no support. But we also make our own choices, unfortunately for her, she made the wrong one. She was the only one able to stop the abortion, if she chose. She chose to go through with it. I'm sure the fact that the pregnancy hormones were still raging, was also a factor. We all have choices, it's not fair to blame anyone but yourself.
Matt





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
I'm sure the fact that the pregnancy hormones were still raging


Please source that "fact" - because the article doesn't give the timeframe the abortion occurred in relation to the suicide. It may be a relevant point to consider but I don't think you can call it fact. For all we know it could have happened 2 years earlier.
Sheila





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point, Matt. I just assumed that she committed suicide shortly after the abortion. Two years later, I'm sure she would have come to grips with what she had done.
Matt





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Good point, Matt. I just assumed that she committed suicide shortly after the abortion. Two years later, I'm sure she would have come to grips with what she had done.


The text of her letter makes it pretty clear she understands she had an abortion. Everyone grieves differently. I can't imagine I would ever "get over it" if a woman aborted my child, and I can't imagine how one would feel changing their mind after the fact when they were the one carrying the child.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Women who have an abortion face a 248 percent greater risk of suicide, accidental death or homicide in the following year, according to a newly released 13-year Finnish study.
The survey also found the suicide rate among women who had an abortion was six times higher than for women who had given birth in the prior year and double that of women who had miscarriages.


The study was conducted by Finland's National Research and Development Center for Welfare and Health and published in the European Journal of Public Health. The researchers studied data from the years 1987 to 2000 on all deaths among women of reproductive age, 15 to 49.

While the risk of death among women who had given birth in the prior year was lowest, death from suicide, accidents and homicide was highest among women who had an abortion in the previous year.

Women who had been pregnant had less than half the death rate of women who had not been pregnant. The risk of death for women who had suffered a miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy did not noticeably differ from women who had not been pregnant.

The findings confirm other studies carried out in the United States, as well as Finland, that showed an increase in the death risk of women who have abortions.

In 1997, a government-funded study in Finland found that women who had abortions were 3.5 times more likely to die the following year than women who had given birth.

Furthermore, researchers looking at death records linked to medical payments for birth and abortion for 173,000 California women discovered there was a 62 percent higher chance of death for aborting women than delivering women over the eight-year period that was examined.

The study also found that the increase in the risk of death was from suicides and accidents. It showed a 154 percent higher risk of death from suicide and 82 percent higher risk of death from accidental injuries.

The main author of the California study, David Reardon, said record-linkage studies like this one are key to getting an accurate picture of pregnancy associated mortality rates.

"In most cases, coroners simply have no way of knowing that the deceased recently had an abortion, which is why these new record-linkage studies are so important," Reardon said.

Government health officials in Finland found in a recent study that 94 percent of maternal deaths involving abortion could not be identified by merely looking at a death certificate. This discovery applies to the data published by the Centers for Disease Control in the U.S.

Also, previous studies draw links between women who get abortions and an increase in substance abuse, anxiety, sleep disorders, suicidal thoughts, psychiatric illness, relationship problems and risk-taking behavior, which could easily lead to death by suicide or accident.

Beyond that, authors of the new Finland study suggested there might be common risk factors between having induced abortion and dying from accidental injury. They called on medical professionals to be aware of these risks.

"Women seeking abortions should be informed that abortion is associated with significant physical and mental health risks, and it also deprives them of numerous physical and mental health benefits associated with childbirth." Reardon said.

He added, it's "especially important for health care providers to be aware of these risks and the risk factors which identify those women who are at highest risk."

"Providing women with the resources to help them resolve emotional issues relating to past abortions will not only increase their well-being but may possibly save their lives," he said.
Matt





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and what exactly was the point of that information? You're not interpreting the studies findings as backing up your suggestion that she should be able to "deal with it" or "get over it" once that rough first year was over, are you?

Because that's completely not what it says, and if that's not your reason, then I really don't see how you seem to think it fits into the current direction of discussion. Frankly it's no more relevant than this article http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....A9629C8B63 detailing the findings that abortion doesn't increase the risk of breast cancer.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt,

I think you mistake my intent a wee bit here. I try to stay out of these debates as I find them emotionally charged (rightly so) and tend to become irrational. People can be so unkind too.

In todays society abortion mythology is that abortion is the big eraser, no more hazardous, or having repercussions then having your tooth pulled.

What I have attempted to point out, possibly a bad way, that this just isn't the case a all.

Peter puck's post that the woman must have been mentally unbalanced was the start of my trying to show that there are indeed long term emotional, physical, spiritual repercussions to such a decision. Imagine feeling such deep loss and remorse after killing your twin children? So much so as to want kill one's self? Yes I could imagine it very easily.

Women are almost never counseled on the long term repercussions of their decision, I happen to think this a huge disservice to these women. But would be counter to the pro-choice agenda, I guess. It must be very hard to get support afterwords. Most people would suffer in silence as after all, they did make the choice.

Clinically I have tried to show and explore how this is indeed not such an easy out.

As Denise Mountenay, founder of Canada Silent No More, has stated it hurts women. I think it's time we spelled it out clearly for all those girls who think it is just a big eraser.

P.S.

I think you have me confused with someone else, where did you get the idea that I think women should just get over it? Deal with it?
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