Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page 1, 2  Next  

Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Page 1 of 2
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cbasu





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 391
Reputation: 131.3
votes: 2

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Stalin Harper? Reply with quote

Has the Star taken over the Post in some sort of coup?

In a Sept 16/06 article entitled 'Harper feeling the pressure to prove himself as Prime Minister', Alan Woods of the National Post wrote:
.. But Harper's choice of reading material has disturbed even some of his own party members.

The senior Tory recounted being told Harper had "read and mastered" the biography and leadership style of Russia's Communist dictator Josef Stalin, and said the prime minister has adopted some of the same tactics.

"He plays people off against one another, he attempts to inspire fear rather than respect, he is unpredictable and he is 100 per cent focused on eliminating the opposition," the senior Conservative explained ...

Stalin! PM Harper's management style is Stalinesque?

Who is this "senior Conservative" smurf and when will he be banished to the gulag for some well-deserved hard labour?

Update 17 Sep: Corrected title.


Last edited by cbasu on Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:19 am; edited 2 times in total
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...people are 'told' all sorts of things - does that make them true?

That is was a "senior Tory" doesn't mean anything - it may even be made up?

Also - if he did read such a book and if he is incorporating some of the noted style into his governance - who cares?

Is he reading the communist manifesto - do people think he'll turn out to be some commie or something? :lol:

The reality is that he was likely reading it - to better understand the communist leader's perspective - to better deal with the NDP. :lol:

A reverse example would be those dictators - like Stalin - who enjoyed watching American movies - despite being at war with America - [of course Mr. Harper isn't any dictator].
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they are referring to the fact that Stalin worked 16 hour days and railed against bureaucrats.
Albertan Technophile





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 76
Reputation: 14.2
Location: guess :)

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An un-named source, or a senior member of the (your party name here) said is hack Journalist speak for "I'm pulling this out of my ass".
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact remains that Stalin was one of the best leaders of our time... (mass murders aside). So for a leader to be well educated on his tactics... I think it would be irresponsible not to be.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds to me like this is simply the weekly smear piece on Harper. Keep us updated on next weeks version, and teh week after that, and the week after that, etc., etc., etc.
shlemazl





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 10
Reputation: 32Reputation: 32Reputation: 32
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie rection wrote:
The fact remains that Stalin was one of the best leaders of our time... (mass murders aside).


He became a leader by looking (and being) average and stupid. Other members of Politburo selected him to lead the party because they did not see him as a competitor to them. Stalin's "example" would not work in a democracy.

Good example of Stalin's leadership was when Hilter attacked USSR. Stalin was told about this many times in advance, but refused to believe it. USSR was utterly unprepared when the war started.

He was as bad as it gets from whichever angle you look at it. However there is nothing wrong with reading a book about him. There is everything wrong with what the Star is saying. I am so tired of moronic comparisons with Hitler, now they are getting Stalin into the frame!
Ardvark





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 150
Reputation: 54.4
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Down with reading!! How dare he read anything not approved by the PC police and the state. Oh, wait, that sounds like something Uncle Joe himself might have said. :shock:

Having to defend reading (anything) because of an article written in a newspaper just sings with irony. :roll:


Read on everyone, read on.

Al
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shlemazl wrote:

Good example of Stalin's leadership was when Hilter attacked USSR. Stalin was told about this many times in advance, but refused to believe it. USSR was utterly unprepared when the war started.


Not true - In fact, he had held tanks in reserve in the east, because he feared an attack from the japanese(and he was waiting on intelligence).... The reason they were pushed back at stalingrad was because of the reserves he had. . . The use of scorched earth and a harsh winter had weakened the germans, slowed their supply lines. He dealt a deadly blow because the german forces had been so weak.
It has been argued that had the russians counter-attacked right away, they would have been defeated by the well-supplied and powerful nazi armies.
He didn't refuse to believe it whatsoever - he just prepared for it quietly.. Its not as if he just started the factories up and made tanks when hitler crossed his border - he was already prepared.

Aside from his brilliant war-time strategy, his 5 year plans built russia into a powerhouse, and drove it to the point where it could compete in the cold war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

Quote:
A myth is that Stalin appeared unwilling to accept the fact and, according to some historians, was too stunned to react appropriately for a number of days
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Russia's tanks at the beginning were so vastly inferior to even broken bicycles, that there was really no point in using them. The Germans destroyed thousands of Russians tanks at the beginning. By the end of the war, the Russians were producing decent armor and such.
Andrew Mason





Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4
Reputation: 12.4

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Stalin a decent strategist? Carol the secret source? Reply with quote

I agree with "biggie" - some historians argue that Stalin deliberately refused to be intimidated by his surviving generals into provoking Hitler by massing troops on the western border (i.e. Soviet-occupied Poland from when Stalin and Hitler were pals) - this was also a strategic move: blitzkrieg tactics involved forcing your enemy to mass before you and then using large-scale armoured pincer movements (combined with stuka/air superiority) to surround the enemy in pockets, which were then squeezed dry. This tactic proved enormously successful in the early stages of Barbarossa - and the one of the reasons the Soviets could keep on fighting was the number of divisions held in reserve that Stalin had refused to commit to the front.

Also, from a political perspective, Stalin knew many of his units were unreliable and were best kept away from the initial shock of the enemy attack: whole divisions went over to the invading Germans, with some placing the number of "Soviet" citizens in German uniform at some 400,000.

Re. the "source" - anyone else think Carol Jamieson has struck again LOL!

Harper must model himself on someone, why not Disraeli?
cbasu





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 391
Reputation: 131.3
votes: 2

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shlemazl wrote:
There is everything wrong with what the Star is saying.

This was in the Post - you know, the paper owned by the company where the PM's former transition chief is the Chairman. I would not have bothered writing if it had been the Star.

What is truly astonishing is that the Post compares the Prime Minister to a ruthless dictator on the word of an anonymous source who appears to have received his/her own information second hand.

Talk about a hatchet job.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Hughes wrote:
Maybe they are referring to the fact that Stalin worked 16 hour days and railed against bureaucrats.


So you think that despot somehow had some redeeming qualities and - in his goverance?

Just see how he caused 25 million of his own people to perish a great many of those - by starvation:

"Estimates of how many people died in Stalin's engineered famine of 1933 vary. But they are staggering in their scale -- between seven and 11 million people."

http://www.ukemonde.com/news/rferl.html

Actually - I think Stalin is a good model for all that can go wrong within communist and socialist leaders.

Oh and - what about the continual state 'paranoid' control of the peoples under his ward - which resulted in the 'cold war'?

As for his having ''railed against bureaucrats" - that was motived by his megalomaniacal mind-set and his fear of usurpers - his fear of 'ambitious' bureaucrats.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was joking. But do I doubt the high estimates of total deaths attributable to him. I also disagree with the idea that Stalin "engineered" a famine as if famine was his intent, and from what I've seen I doubt that 7 to 11 million people died in it. Usually at this point people bring up Rummel, who is a horrible source. I also tend to think that his actions followed from a logic that was probably augmented by a desire for power but an ideological thread can be discerned throughout. That is, it wasn't (at least mostly) wanton destruction, the various purges had very specific intents connected with real conditions. But I tend to be part of a minority that believes a person is guilty because of their first crime, and feel no need to exaggerate at the margins. I tend to find that such exaggeration is connected with ideas that fascism was somehow less of a threat than Communism.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The man was a brilliant leader... then again hitler was a brilliant leader, hussein, and the like.. Just using your skills for "evil" doesn't negate the fact that those skills exist.
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Page 1 of 2

Goto page 1, 2  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Stalin Harper?

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB