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First Lady





Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 103
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Debute of Wildrose Alliance website Reply with quote

Introducing..............


www.wildrosealliance.ca
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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votes: 36

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. That's a big improvement over the old one...
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks great!

I'm ambivalent about the commitment to a provincial police force to replace the RCMP, mainly because I don't know enough about Alberta's policing to know why this is a policy position. This much I know: the RCMP is the best bargain when it comes to policing. The Powers That Be deliberately keep the costs low when renegotiating municipal and/or provincial contracts. I suspect Wildrose hasn't priced that commitment out. Creating a new police force form the ground up will be very, very expensive.

-Mac
First Lady





Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 103
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Wow. That's a big improvement over the old one...


Thanks. I thought it was pretty good too, for volunteers who worked during the wee hours.... they have accomplished a lot in just 5 days.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This much I know: the RCMP is the best bargain when it comes to policing. The Powers That Be deliberately keep the costs low when renegotiating municipal and/or provincial contracts. I suspect Wildrose hasn't priced that commitment out. Creating a new police force form the ground up will be very, very expensive.


Agreed. I think that this was probably born from frustrations with the long-gun registry - I know some people who think implementing a provincial force would be a way of doing an end run around it by ordering it not enforced.

Even if it were possible, I'm of the opinion it would set a very dangerous precedent for civilian oversight.
First Lady





Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 103
Reputation: 32.9Reputation: 32.9Reputation: 32.9

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Quote:
This much I know: the RCMP is the best bargain when it comes to policing. The Powers That Be deliberately keep the costs low when renegotiating municipal and/or provincial contracts. I suspect Wildrose hasn't priced that commitment out. Creating a new police force form the ground up will be very, very expensive.


Agreed. I think that this was probably born from frustrations with the long-gun registry - I know some people who think implementing a provincial force would be a way of doing an end run around it by ordering it not enforced.

Even if it were possible, I'm of the opinion it would set a very dangerous precedent for civilian oversight.


There is an excellent summary on the a provincial police force here:

http://www.albertaagenda.ca/police.htm

With the introduction of the Alberta Sheriffs, we are just steps away from having a provincial force. However, the PC's are reluctant to admit that.....
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the chief objections boil down to two "points" which are:

1- cost
2- responsiveness

The authors claim an Alberta provincial force would cost less. I find that very hard to believe... especially since the authors claim that the principle "recruiting" would be to convert RCMP officers to Alberta provincials. Who in their right mind would take a cut in pay to leave the federal force in order to work for a provincial force? Sorry, that doesn't make sense!

The only reference offered to support the theory that a provincial force would be cheaper is some dated comparisons to the OPP with no explanation of how those "costings" were derived.

As far as the second point, the authors are right. The RCMP isn't particularly responsive right now... but that should change.

The RCMP is in the midst of a long overdue "evolution" in our upper management as a result of the Brown Task Force (not to mention the Duxbury Reports) because our senior executives lost contact with the reality of policing. They were micro-managing everything from the ivory towers of Ottawa, so the local managers are constricted in what they can or cannot do. Result? Lack of responsiveness.

-Mac
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...principle "recruiting" would be to convert RCMP officers to Alberta provincials. Who in their right mind would take a cut in pay to leave the federal force in order to work for a provincial force?


Exactly. Also consider that the RCMP are mandated to place in the top 3 highest-paid services in Canada, and IIRC, review member pay every 2-3 years. On top of this, anyone leaving the force will lose some or all of their pension, unless the 'APP' accepts pension transfers (more $$$).

Also, keep in mind that police forces all across the country are stuggling to recruit and train enough officers to overcome normal attrition, let alone increase services to account for population. Nevermind that the Armed Forces are attempting massive expansion and generally draw from the same portion of the population.

I think it is rediculous to expect that more 15 or 20% of staffing can be met with lateral transfers. Almost all of these experienced officers will be required as NCOs or placed in specialized units (investigations, forensics, ERT, 'public order', K9, various task forces ...etc).

The rest of your labour must be trained. This cost, previously born by the RCMP, passes on to the province. To build, equip, and staff a facility that can produce a stream of new officers at anything approaching the high quality of the RCMP will cost tens of millions, if not a couple hundred million. The 'police college' in Southern Alberta is most certainly not equal to this task.

Then there are the incredibly vital administrative staff, who must be trained on whatever filing system the new force uses. Guards for the detachment cells. They must be competent individuals compensated enough to attract and retain in Alberta's job market. All police and civilian personnel will almost certainly be unionized. You must purchase an entire vehicle fleet and have the ability to maintain it with speed and efficiency. Then there's the physical detachments themselves ... etc.
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