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Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: CanWest says Conservatives need women's vote for majority Reply with quote

So is it just me or are you sick and tired of the MSM screaming "The Conservatives Can't Have A Majority!!!" all the time? The only thing worse than that is the media running stories like this one. Seriously, when I read this first, I thought it was satire. What journalist would interview/publish comments from someone like this? Sadly, this is the story which he wrote... Read it and laugh (or weep)...

-Mac

Conservatives need women's vote for majority

Andrew Mayeda , CanWest News Service
Published: Sunday, January 06, 2008

OTTAWA -- Two years ago, political pundits wouldn't have given Prime Minister Stephen Harper much chance of winning over Ariette Schoorl.

The 61-year-old, who considers herself left wing, was initially put off by Harper's "cold" personality.

But even though she doesn't always agree with the Harper government's policies, especially on the environment, she has come to admire the prime minister's poise.

"He stays cool, he stays under control and I appreciate that in the guy," she said. "He can't help it that he's a conservative."

If they hope to win a majority in the next federal election, Harper's Conservatives will need to discover more women like Schoorl.

Recent polls by Ipsos Reid for CanWest News Service show that support for the Conservatives among women trails support among men by a significant margin.

[.....]

h/t to Jack of Jack's Newswatch
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 3130
Reputation: 114.9
votes: 10
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recent polls....

This has been well known for years. Looks like the MSM just wants to strengthen the "no majority" narrative.
Louise M.





Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 243
Reputation: 61.6
votes: 1
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To appeal to women, Conservatives have to ramp up law and order issues. Women are nurturing by nature and protection from crime for themselves and their loved ones is a priority. Women need to feel the government is there to bring in protective measures and punishment for perpetrators. This would differentiate Conservatives from Liberals who have a penchant for the rights of perps over the rights of victims.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise M. wrote:
To appeal to women, Conservatives have to ramp up law and order issues. Women are nurturing by nature and protection from crime for themselves and their loved ones is a priority. Women need to feel the government is there to bring in protective measures and punishment for perpetrators. This would differentiate Conservatives from Liberals who have a penchant for the rights of perps over the rights of victims.

I agree completely, Louise. Let's hope the current session of Parliament affords the Conservatives more opportunities to bring change. For instance, "statutory release" is a program which needs to be terminated.

-Mac
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For instance, "statutory release" is a program which needs to be terminated.

I see your statutory release, and raise you "3 to 1 for time served"!
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got polled yesterday for the first time. Some very interesting questions. Do you agree with the following statements?

PMSH is cold and uncaring.

I can't give the Cons a majority because they have a secret agenda.

The cons are doing nothing on the environment folder.

The cons have helped my family.

Cons don't care about the poor or disadvantaged.

The Liberals need to sit in the Penalty box a while longer.

I am sorry that Paul Martin didn't win the last election.

Some trick questions:

Of the following please pick one: I would vote for the Liberals if they changed their platform or I would vote for the Liberals if they stay the course. :shock:

I refused to answer this question as I would never vote Liberal at this point in my life.

They asked me the reasons why I wouldn't vote liberal. Leadership, past performance, past indiscretions, lack of movement on portfolios?
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise M. wrote:
To appeal to women, Conservatives have to ramp up law and order issues. Women are nurturing by nature and protection from crime for themselves and their loved ones is a priority. Women need to feel the government is there to bring in protective measures and punishment for perpetrators. This would differentiate Conservatives from Liberals who have a penchant for the rights of perps over the rights of victims.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the simple fact of the matter is that at best, when you are at home and someone decides to break in, the government and its protection are at best 5 minutes away. What you actually need is a gun, if you want protection now, and not 5, or 10 minutes form now.

Punishment, and revenge after the fact are all well and good, but if you want anything to actually be prevented, you will have to do it yourself.
Louise M.





Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 243
Reputation: 61.6
votes: 1
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the simple fact of the matter is that at best, when you are at home and someone decides to break in, the government and its protection are at best 5 minutes away. What you actually need is a gun, if you want protection now, and not 5, or 10 minutes form now.

I would guess you are probably male. Men operate mostly on a pragmatic level and women operate mostly on an intuitive level. (I hope I don't start something with that comment.) You say a gun is the answer. Women hate guns and violence in general. To prevent home invasions, women prefer prevention and that means a tougher justice system to keep convicted thugs in jail, tougher sentences and safer communities.

Quote:
Punishment, and revenge after the fact are all well and good, but if you want anything to actually be prevented, you will have to do it yourself.

Most women are Liberal voters and are used to the government pandering to their every need. That extends to their safety and that of their loved ones. In this respect, the Liberals have let them down and this is where I think the Conservatives can make some headway with the female vote. It may translate into making women feel safer strictly on a psychological level, but heh, everything's fair in politics.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is the thing about crime prevention. New laws are not going to affect the behavior of people who don't respect laws. I mean, murder has been illegal pretty much since the dawn of civilization, but people still try to get away with it, despite life in prison, hanging, firing squad, lethal injection, electric chair, drawing and quartering, and most recently, serving your sentence in the community. The police have good intentions, they want to protect you, but unless the cop happens to be driving by and sees your home being broken into, they will be responding after the fact.

It would be nice to know that people would not get the chance to re-offend, but hating guns is not going to change your need for one.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To a point I have to agree with Louise. Women tend to want to FEEL safe. Up until the last 4 years or so I was devote Liberal with strong Family ties. (My mother in law was the local president of the Liberal womens association.)

We also have this need for fairness and I had always thought that the Conservative party was all about taking care of business and it will take care of you. Needless to say I have matured in my political views and I think many women are ready to HEAR an alternative to the Liberals.We don't trust Liberals with our money but give women a reason to trust the cons with the rest of the issues like law and order.

Common sense, priorities are everyday things women need to use in order to get thru our days. Use it, Mike Harris was the first Conservative to convert me.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise M. wrote:
I would guess you are probably male. Men operate mostly on a pragmatic level and women operate mostly on an intuitive level. (I hope I don't start something with that comment.) You say a gun is the answer. Women hate guns and violence in general. To prevent home invasions, women prefer prevention and that means a tougher justice system to keep convicted thugs in jail, tougher sentences and safer communities.

A couple small problems here. Not all women hate guns and the "anti-gun" attitude is (was?) a learned behaviour. My mom was always a better shot than my dad... but then again she voted Liberal... sigh....

Second thing is if women prefer prevention, why on earth would they vote Liberal since their idea of getting tough on crime is hugging thugs and telling them it's all society's fault that thugs are dysfunctional... so either women aren't paying attention to what the Liberals have been doing on the justice issue or ???

Louise M. wrote:
Most women are Liberal voters and are used to the government pandering to their every need. That extends to their safety and that of their loved ones. In this respect, the Liberals have let them down and this is where I think the Conservatives can make some headway with the female vote. It may translate into making women feel safer strictly on a psychological level, but heh, everything's fair in politics.

So that pandering... how well is that working on justice issues? Maybe the Conservatives need to point out to the women voters just how ineffective the Liberals (with the full endorsement of the NDP & Bloc) are on justice issues and provide an alternative with teeth (so to speak)... Back to you, Lou!

-Mac
Louise M.





Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 243
Reputation: 61.6
votes: 1
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
A couple small problems here. Not all women hate guns and the "anti-gun" attitude is (was?) a learned behaviour. My mom was always a better shot than my dad... but then again she voted Liberal... sigh....

Iím not sure I know what you mean by learned behaviour.

I would think that rural women have always been more comfortable having guns around than their urban counterparts. Are you from a rural family Mac?

The gun registry was the Liberals knee jerk reaction to the Montreal massacre. At the time, they bowed to pressure from interest groups and played on the fears of women to ram the registry through. Women are now beginning to realize the gun registry really does not keep them safe on the street or in their homes. IMO women's views on guns are changing and some would even carry a handgun in their purse for their personal safety and that of their loved ones.

Quote:
Second thing is if women prefer prevention, why on earth would they vote Liberal since their idea of getting tough on crime is hugging thugs and telling them it's all society's fault that thugs are dysfunctional... so either women aren't paying attention to what the Liberals have been doing on the justice issue or ???

The same reason many other groups voted Liberal. The right was fractured and they did not see a viable alternative to the Liberals. Iím an example. Until the new Conservative party was formed, I had always voted Liberal. I changed my vote in 2004 and now support the Conservatives.

Women are nurturing so it is not surprising they supported the rehabilitation of offenders as opposed to getting tough with them. The left appealed to this nurturing predisposition to push for a system that places more emphasis on the rights of offenders than victimsí rights. Women are ready to accept the fact that many criminals will re-offend regardless of all the good intentions of the justice system and the only way to reverse the trend is to get tough with them.

Quote:
So that pandering... how well is that working on justice issues? Maybe the Conservatives need to point out to the women voters just how ineffective the Liberals (with the full endorsement of the NDP & Bloc) are on justice issues and provide an alternative with teeth (so to speak)... Back to you, Lou!

-Mac

IMO, the Conservatives have a serious communications problem which they must overcome quickly. Fixing this problem would be the best first step. They have great policies but they're not getting their messages across. As you say, they must differentiate themselves from the Liberals if they want women to take notice. Women are more than willing to listen. I think law and order issues are fertile ground for Conservatives to increase support among women. What stands in the way is poor communication.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise M. wrote:
Iím not sure I know what you mean by learned behaviour.

I would think that rural women have always been more comfortable having guns around than their urban counterparts. Are you from a rural family Mac?

The gun registry was the Liberals knee jerk reaction to the Montreal massacre. At the time, they bowed to pressure from interest groups and played on the fears of women to ram the registry through. Women are now beginning to realize the gun registry really does not keep them safe on the street or in their homes. IMO women's views on guns are changing and some would even carry a handgun in their purse for their personal safety and that of their loved ones.

In a way, I think you've answered your own question re: learned behaviour. I'm not so sure that it was anti-gun pressure groups that taught urban females to be frightened of guns. The Liberals were looking for any excuse to ban guns and they've exploited whatever chance that came up to throw around anti-gun rhetoric... but the Progressive Conservatives were almost as bad. The Montreal massacre happened during Mulroney's tenure and it was Kim Campbell who brought up the first knee-jerk legislation regarding guns... a limit on the capacity of magazines, as I recall.

Yes, I was raised in a small rural community. Not every house had a gun but they certainly weren't uncommon either... and there wasn't any unreasoning fear of guns which I've seen in the urban settings.

Louise M. wrote:
The same reason many other groups voted Liberal. The right was fractured and they did not see a viable alternative to the Liberals. Iím an example. Until the new Conservative party was formed, I had always voted Liberal. I changed my vote in 2004 and now support the Conservatives.

Women are nurturing so it is not surprising they supported the rehabilitation of offenders as opposed to getting tough with them. The left appealed to this nurturing predisposition to push for a system that places more emphasis on the rights of offenders than victimsí rights. Women are ready to accept the fact that many criminals will re-offend regardless of all the good intentions of the justice system and the only way to reverse the trend is to get tough with them.

Good point... although I must admit I wouldn't have voted Liberal regardless. The PC crowd under Joe Clark didn't get my vote so I was looking at either Green (under Harris, they had decent fiscal policy) or Reform...

Nurturing is one thing but I know most women can be hard as stone when it comes time for a little "tough love" to deal with a problem. Rehabilitation via "hug-a-thug" didn't ever work so I'm surprised there aren't more women demanding things change.

Louise M. wrote:
IMO, the Conservatives have a serious communications problem which they must overcome quickly. Fixing this problem would be the best first step. They have great policies but they're not getting their messages across. As you say, they must differentiate themselves from the Liberals if they want women to take notice. Women are more than willing to listen. I think law and order issues are fertile ground for Conservatives to increase support among women. What stands in the way is poor communication.

Communication is an ongoing problem which the Conservatives better fix sooner than later!

-Mac
Louise M.





Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 243
Reputation: 61.6
votes: 1
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
I'm not so sure that it was anti-gun pressure groups that taught urban females to be frightened of guns.

What frightens urban residents, women especially, if that they don't know where the guns are located. Many live in apartment buildings and for all they know their neighbours have guns, registered or not. There is also the fear of being an innocent bystander caught in the middle of a gun fight on the street. I've always been a city dweller and felt these fears myself. I don't think these fears exist so much in rural settings.
Quote:
The Liberals were looking for any excuse to ban guns and they've exploited whatever chance that came up to throw around anti-gun rhetoric...

It's all part of the twisted leftist ideology of creating a non-violent society. There sill always be violence in society. It's time to deal with the real world.

Quote:
Yes, I was raised in a small rural community. Not every house had a gun but they certainly weren't uncommon either... and there wasn't any unreasoning fear of guns which I've seen in the urban settings.

I think this comes back to the point that urban dwellers feel more threatened by guns than rural dwellers. Rural dwellers are more trusting of their neighbours than are city dwellers.

Quote:
Nurturing is one thing but I know most women can be hard as stone when it comes time for a little "tough love" to deal with a problem. Rehabilitation via "hug-a-thug" didn't ever work so I'm surprised there aren't more women demanding things change.

Having raised two boys, been there and done that. I was so tough on them they both joined the military to ramp down the discipline. LOL. As for getting tough on criminals, I think women's attitudes are changing.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are right about getting tough, there have just been too many travesties of justice in recent memory for it to be coincidence, or the work of a few bad judges. But coupled with that, citizens actually have to be allowed to defend themselves, and allowed to own and use the most effective tools of self defense, which are handguns. Tasers might cut it too, but nobody seems to like them right now. An armed society is a polite society. Also, as people more famous and experienced than myself have said, government should be afraid of the people, the people should not fear government.

There are other weapons you could try. Canine weapons have been banned in Ontario, so you are out of luck there. Dogs are also probably more dangerous than guns in the hands of people who are not experienced dog handlers. Baseball bats and such are effective as long as you are not in a gun fight. In my opinion, no one is serious about law and order until they start talking about loosening up restrictions on hand guns, and allowing concealed carry of handguns. Going by that guide, all current parties are peddling more of the same.

PS. My personal philosophy is that you should be just as well armed as the average criminal. Anything less sets you up for victim status.
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CanWest says Conservatives need women's vote for majority

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