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Lar_drewstar





Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
Reputation: 19.8Reputation: 19.8
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston2004 wrote:
Mac wrote:
Winston2004 wrote:
He has to, IMO.

It's neither possible nor practical for Paul to denunciate fringe groups without destroying his credibility and his campaign. Since you appear determined to discredit Paul on this forum, your opinion matches your goal. At least you're consistent, I suppose.

-Mac


I don't like people who are backed by Neo-Nazis, KKKs, Radical Lefties, Jew haters, Isolationist losertarians and other clueless people who think we still live in the 17th century and don't appreciate the interconnectivity of our world. This guy is just a populist moron whom I believe should be discredited and exposed for what he is by any SANE person who truly believes in Conservative ideas. I think I have said enough! thnx


So if I have have understood this comment correctly, you dislike candidates who are supported by people who's ideas you dislike or view as disgusting even. In that case would you be against Stephen Harper if one day NDP and communist supporters voted for him? Wouldn't that just mean that one person has to have ideas you disagree and vote for a candidate for you to disown the candidate? I see no logic there. Although as I recall from history politics is most often illogical...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lar_drewstar wrote:
Winston2004 wrote:
Mac wrote:
Winston2004 wrote:
He has to, IMO.

It's neither possible nor practical for Paul to denunciate fringe groups without destroying his credibility and his campaign. Since you appear determined to discredit Paul on this forum, your opinion matches your goal. At least you're consistent, I suppose.

-Mac


I don't like people who are backed by Neo-Nazis, KKKs, Radical Lefties, Jew haters, Isolationist losertarians and other clueless people who think we still live in the 17th century and don't appreciate the interconnectivity of our world. This guy is just a populist moron whom I believe should be discredited and exposed for what he is by any SANE person who truly believes in Conservative ideas. I think I have said enough! thnx


So if I have have understood this comment correctly, you dislike candidates who are supported by people who's ideas you dislike or view as disgusting even. In that case would you be against Stephen Harper if one day NDP and communist supporters voted for him? Wouldn't that just mean that one person has to have ideas you disagree and vote for a candidate for you to disown the candidate? I see no logic there. Although as I recall from history politics is most often illogical...


I'd be very disappointed if NDP supported PM Harper. And things crazy uncle Paul says are disturbing. He can't be the president. He has no experience and his ideas are of the 17th century. Period!
Lar_drewstar





Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
Reputation: 19.8Reputation: 19.8
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston2004 wrote:
I'd be very disappointed if NDP supported PM Harper. And things crazy uncle Paul says are disturbing. He can't be the president. He has no experience and his ideas are of the 17th century. Period!


Why would you be disappointed if any supporters of any other party voted for someone you liked, because that would be wrong to appeal to everyone? I was under the impression thats what made the Conservative party so great! Paul can be president (otherwise he wouldn't be running but that doesn't mean he will be. He has plenty of experience in government if you look at how many times hes been elected to the house and his previous white house bid. And finally the comment on ideas being those of the 17th century, it should be noted that the prevalent ideas in our society, that is freedom and democracy have been around since about the 5th century BC. I get the impression your clutching at straws with your mild slander against a very respectable candidate.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lar_drewstar wrote:
Winston2004 wrote:
I'd be very disappointed if NDP supported PM Harper. And things crazy uncle Paul says are disturbing. He can't be the president. He has no experience and his ideas are of the 17th century. Period!


Why would you be disappointed if any supporters of any other party voted for someone you liked, because that would be wrong to appeal to everyone? I was under the impression thats what made the Conservative party so great! Paul can be president (otherwise he wouldn't be running but that doesn't mean he will be. He has plenty of experience in government if you look at how many times hes been elected to the house and his previous white house bid. And finally the comment on ideas being those of the 17th century, it should be noted that the prevalent ideas in our society, that is freedom and democracy have been around since about the 5th century BC. I get the impression your clutching at straws with your mild slander against a very respectable candidate.


That's exactly where you Ron Paul supporters are wrong and hopefully the crazy uncle won't win any thing. The guy is still a nutcase in the eyes of sane people and your arguments won't change the fact that he is a loony losertarian

Btw, I didn't invent the term LOSERTARIAN. Michael Medved did and I am just copying it. :wink:

Check the following link... Can any sane person defend this insane candidate?

http://littlegreenfootballs.co.....d&only
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Paul has acknowledged his newsletter was "ghostwritten" for some years and he wasn't keeping track of the content which he has subsequently disavowed... but that's not good enough for you, I expect.

Whether you invented the insulting term 'losertarian' or not certainly doesn't excuse your repeated use of it here. It's lucky the libertarians on this forum (including myself) are more tolerant than you.

Tell me, Winston2004... do you have a medical degree? How many babies have you delivered? How many books have you written? How many elections have you won? What do you bring to the table that qualifies you to criticize someone so much more accomplished than yourself?

-Mac
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
Tell me, Winston2004... do you have a medical degree? How many babies have you delivered? How many books have you written? How many elections have you won? What do you bring to the table that qualifies you to criticize someone so much more accomplished than yourself?

-Mac


I think your line of questioning doesnt make sense at all. I am not the candidate. He is. And he has to be responsible for stupid stuff he has done over the years. If we were to follow your advice of not criticizing people that have done more than us, then what should regular citizens do? I am very much at liberty to say any thing against any one I please. He is a candidate with anti-semitic views and with supporters from very terrible groups and therefore I believe he has to be criticized for things he has said.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston2004 wrote:
I am very much at liberty to say any thing against any one I please.

It's interesting you should bring up liberty since Paul is the only candidate who believes in bringing liberty back to the people by rolling back the encroachment of intrusive powers of government.

-Mac
Lar_drewstar





Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
Reputation: 19.8Reputation: 19.8
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston2004 wrote:
I am very much at liberty to say any thing against any one I please.


This would be true if losertarians were more prevalent in Canadian society, but unfortunately with Canada's hate crime laws and human rights commissions such as you say is not the reality.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lar_drewstar wrote:
Winston2004 wrote:
I am very much at liberty to say any thing against any one I please.


This would be true if losertarians were more prevalent in Canadian society, but unfortunately with Canada's hate crime laws and human rights commissions such as you say is not the reality.


I lived a good portion of my life under the rule of ayatollahs back in Iran and they couldn't take my rights away, let alone the fishy socialist Canadian HRC. Human spirit is limitless. They can jail me, but they can't jail my thoughts.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
Winston2004 wrote:
I am very much at liberty to say any thing against any one I please.

It's interesting you should bring up liberty since Paul is the only candidate who believes in bringing liberty back to the people by rolling back the encroachment of intrusive powers of government.

-Mac


Nope. If we leave it to that idiot, many many people around the world will lose their liberty. So, no thanks I don't want your crazy uncle liberty.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston, I think you might bemore successful in your arguments if you tone down the emotional language and for lack of a better word, name-calling. I heartily disagree with a lot of Dr. Paul's foreign policy, but I will not call him crazy or a moron - that would make me no better than those who have been peddling the 'Bush is dumb' meme for the last 8 years.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Winston, I think you might bemore successful in your arguments if you tone down the emotional language and for lack of a better word, name-calling. I heartily disagree with a lot of Dr. Paul's foreign policy, but I will not call him crazy or a moron - that would make me no better than those who have been peddling the 'Bush is dumb' meme for the last 8 years.


I am not emotional at all. I'm just wondering if there is one SANE political pundit that endorses this crazy guy. I doubt any sane individual endorses him.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston2004 wrote:
I am not emotional at all. I'm just wondering if there is one SANE political pundit that endorses this crazy guy. I doubt any sane individual endorses him.


Select list of Ron Paul's endorsements...

Tucker Carlson - host of "Tucker"
Jim Cramer - host of Mad Money w/Jim Cramer
Jack Cafferty - frequent commentator for CNN's The Situation Room
John Stossel - author, anchor and columnist
Andrew Sullivan - Daily Dish blogger

Complete list...

Academia

* Jonathan Bean, Ph.D. [205] - research fellow at Independent Institute*, professor of history, Southern Illinois University*
* David Beito, Ph.D. [206] - professor of history at University of Alabama*
* Walter Block, Ph.D.[207] - professor of economics at Loyola University* and fellow at the Mises Institute*
* Nelson Borelli, M.D. [205] - Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences,?Medical School, Northwestern University*
* Samuel Bostaph, Ph.D.[208] - Chairman, Department of Economics, University of Dallas
* Jack Chambless, Ph.D.[209] - professor of economics at Valencia College*
* Joe Michael Cobb, Ph.D.[210] - retired professor of economics, Orange Coast College* and Saddleback College*
* Casimir Dadak, Ph.D.[208] - Associate Professor of Finance and Economics, Dept. of Business and Economics, Hollins University
* Thomas DiLorenzo, Ph.D.[208] - Professor of Economics, Loyola College in Maryland; Senior Faculty Member, the Ludwig von Mises Institute
* Gary Galles, Ph.D.[211] - professor of economics at Pepperdine University*
* Keith Halderman [205] - research assistant at Trebach Institute* and adjunct professor at American University*
* Steve H. Hanke, Ph.D.[208] - Professor of Applied Economics, The Johns Hopkins University and Journalist for Forbes Magazine
* David R. Henderson, Ph.D. [205] - Hoover Institution* and professor of economics at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California*
* Guido Hulsmann, Ph.D.[208] - Senior Fellow, Ludwig Von Mises Institute
* Zagros Madjd-Sadjadi, Ph.D.[208] - Assistant Professor of Economics, Department of Economics, Winston-Salem State University
* Mark LeBar, Ph.D. [205] - Department of Philosophy, Ohio University*
* William Marina, Ph.D. [205] - Department of History, Florida Atlantic University*
* Charles W. Nuckolls, Ph.D. [205] - Department of Anthropology, Brigham Young University*
* William H. Peterson, Ph.D.[208] - Schlarbaum Laureate, Ludwig von Misis Institute
* Ivan Pongracic, Jr., Ph.D. [205] - Department of Economics, Hillsdale College*
* Arthur Robinson, Ph.D.[208] - Founder, Robinson Curriculum; President of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine
* Joseph T. Salerno, Ph.D.[208] - Graduate Program Chair, Department of Finance and Economics, Lubin School of Business, Pace University
* D. Eric Schansberg, Ph.D. [205] - Department of Economics, Indiana University*
* Ken Schoolland, M.S.F.S. [205] - economics and political science, Hawaii Pacific University*
* Larry J. Sechrest, Ph.D.[208] - Professor of Economics, Sul Ross University
* Mark Thornton, Ph.D.[208] - Author, Former Economic Advisor to the Governor of Alabama; Senior Fellow, Ludwig von Mises Institute
* Walter E. Williams, Ph.D.[212] - professor of economics at George Mason University*
* Thomas E. Woods, Jr., Ph.D.[213] - author and resident historian at the Mises Institute*
* James Yohe, Ph.D [205] - Gadsden State Community College*

*Affiliations stated for information only
[edit] Entertainers

* Donna D'Errico[214] - actress, model
* Bill Dumas[215] - Hollywood film producer
* The Evolutionaries[216] - New York industrial music group
* Glen Jacobs[217] - WWE wrestler "Kane"
* Rockie Lynne[218] - country musician
* Sean Morley[219] - WWE wrestler "Val Venis"
* Krist Novoselic[220] - rock bassist formerly of Nirvana
* David Pasquesi [221] - actor and comedian
* Aaron Russo (1943-2007)[222] - Hollywood film producer
* Doug Stanhope[223] - comedian
* J. Michael Straczynski[224] - creator of Babylon 5
* Jimmie Vaughan[225] - blues guitarist

[edit] Media

* Matt Abar[208] - Financial and Technology Blogger, Wealthfly
* Peter Allison[208] - Author
* James Bovard[citation needed] - author and columnist
* Jack Cafferty[citation needed] - frequent commentator for CNN's The Situation Room
* Tucker Carlson[226] - host of "Tucker"
* Jim Cramer - [227]host of Mad Money w/Jim Cramer
* Adam Curry[208] - Media Personality
* Vox Day[228] - columnist
* John Derbyshire[229] - Columnist for National Review Online
* Marc Emery[230] - Canadian radio station manager
* G. Edward Griffin[231] - author and film producer
* Alex Jones[232] - paleoconservative radio host and filmmaker
* Karen Kay[208] - Author
* Devvy Kidd[233] - political columnist
* Isabel Lyman[208] - Author
* Texe Marrs[234] - pastor, author and radio host
* Bruce Alan Martin[235] - radio host, "Long Island Liberty, with BAM", WUSB 90.1 FM Stony Brook, New York
* Rex F. May[208] - Political Cartoonist
* Ilana Mercer[236] - columnist
* Paul Mulshine[citation needed] - journalist
* Robert Ringer[208] - Author
* Lauren Royal[237] - Author
* Peter Schiff[238] - financial consultant and Fox News contributor
* Gary B. Smith[239] - Fox News economics commentator
* L. Neil Smith[240] - author
* Joseph Sobran[241] - columnist
* John Stossel - author, anchor and columnist
* Andrew Sullivan[242] - Daily Dish blogger

[edit] Organizations

* Jefferson Republican Party [243]
* Montana Shooting Sports Association [208]
* The Old School Conservatives, independent political organization[244]
* Reform Party of Ohio[245]
* United Republicans of California [246]
* Wyoming State Shooting Association [208]

[edit] Government officials

* Karen Kwiatkowski[247] - Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, Retired
* Andrew Napolitano[248] - political commentator and former New Jersey Superior Court Judge
* Michael Scheuer[249] - former head analyst at the CIA’s bin Laden Unit

[edit] Elected officials

* Bob Barr [250] - former member of Congress (R-GA)
* Aubyn Curtiss[251] - Montana Senator
* Porter Davis [208] - Former Oklahioma state representative
* Michael J. Doherty [252] - New Jersey state legislator
* Paul Findley[253] - former member of Congress (R-IL)
* Mike Folmer[251] - Pennsylvania Senator
* Barry Goldwater, Jr.[254] - former member of Congress (R-CA)
* Jim Guest[255] - Missouri state representative
* Barbara Hagan[256] - former New Hampshire state representative and right-to-life activist
* Phil Hart[251] - Idaho state congressman
* Gary Hayes [208] - Former mayor of Middleburgh, NY
* Paul Ingbretson [257] - New Hampshire state representative
* Gary E. Johnson[258] - Former Governor of New Mexico
* Karen Johnson [259] - Arizona state senator
* Walter Jones[260] - member of Congress (R-NC)
* Rick Jore[251] - Montana representative
* Charles Key[261]. - Oklahoma state representative, District 90
* Roger Koopman[251] - Montana representative
* Tom Langlais [262] - former New Hampshire state representative
* R. Kenneth Lindell [208] - Former Maine state representative
* Allan Mansoor[263] - mayor of Costa Mesa, CA
* Jason Murphey- [264] - Oklahoma state representative, District 31
* Jerry O'Neill[253] - Montana state representative
* Dick Randolph [265] - former Alaskan state representative
* Steve Vaillancourt[253] - New Hampshire state representative

[edit] Other political

* Michael Badnarik[266] - 2004 Libertarian Party presidential candidate
* Chuck Baldwin[267] - 2004 Constitution Party vice-presidential candidate
* Jim Clymer[268] - Constitution Party national chairman
* Kinky Friedman[269] - 2006 Texas gubernatorial candidate
* Kevin George[251] - Texas Congressional candidate
* Frank Gonzalez[270][271] - 2008 independent congressional candidate in Florida
* Stephen P. Gordon[272] - former national communications director, Libertarian Party
* David Grate[251] - New York Congressional candidate
* Peter James[251] - Maryland Congressional candidate
* Larry Kilgore[273] - 2008 Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Texas
* Steve Kubby[274] - 2008 Libertarian Party presidential candidate
* B.J. Lawson[251] - North Carolina Congressional candidate
* Steven McDuffie[251] - Colorado U.S. House candidate
* Michael Peroutka[275] - 2004 Constitution Party presidential candidate
* Dick Randolph [208] - Former Alaska state representative
* Justin Raimondo[276] - 1996 Republican congressional candidate in California and editorial director of Antiwar.com
* Bret Sanders[251] - Louisiana U.S. House candidate
* Dean Santoro[251] - Florida U.S. House candidate
* Doug Schell[251] - North Carolina U.S. House candidate
* Christine Smith [277] - 2008 Libertarian Party presidential candidate
* Michael Charles Smith[278] - 2008 Republican Party presidential candidate
* Wm. Donald Tabor[251] - Virginia State Senate candidate
* Theodore Terbolizard[279][280] - 2008 Republican congressional candidate in California
* Brian Thomas [208] - Former Washington state representative
* Jason Thompson[251] - Georgia Congressional candidate
* John Wallace[251] - New York Congressional candidate

[edit] Other

* Charlie Beall[281] - CEO of eKnowledge.
* Don Black, webmaster of the Stormfront White Nationalist Community and former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan[282]
* Dennis Hof, owner of the Moonlite Bunny Ranch in Carson City, Nevada.[283] Hof endorsed at the request of Tucker Carlson.[284]
* Jacob G. Hornberger[285] - founder and president of The Future of Freedom Foundation, B.A. Economics, J.D., attorney, adjunct professor at the University of Dallas
* Pastor John Killian[286] - Maytown Baptist Church, Maytown, Alabama
* Pastor Creighton Lovelace[287] - Danieltown Baptist Church, Forest City, North Carolina
* Larry Lepard, Massachusetts venture capitalist. On November 21, 2007, he bought for approximately $85,000 a full-page advertisement in USA Today endorsing Ron Paul. [22] An HTML version: here. A PDF: here
* Trevor Lyman[288] - Organizer of This November 5th fund-raiser
* Luke Russert[289] - son of Tim Russert
* Joey Scarborough[290] - Morning Joe host Joe Scarborough's son, of Pensacola, Florida
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! That's quite a pile of insane people... and that doesn't mention the hundreds of thousands of grassroots folks who've sent Paul donations...

-Mac
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
Reputation: 93.9Reputation: 93.9
votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
I don't think Harper should give recognition in any form to groups like Nazis. Paying any attention to them positive or negative only draws attention to them. It is not Ron Paul's responsibility to repudiate fringe supporters.


I don't know if mixing up Harper with Ron Paul was intentional or nor, but Craig makes a very good point. Manning and Harper (although to a lesser extent) had to fight these types of attacks all the time.

I wish people would debate based on policy and not based on information from drive-by smear artists.
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