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Big Tuna





Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 368
Reputation: 15
votes: 6

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
Big Tuna wrote:
I don't understand how you can call him Taliban Jack for suggesting the same thing Peter McKay suggested just a few months ago. It's all fair as long as we refer to McKay as "Taliban Pete".

Anyway, on topic, pretty stupid over reaction by the NDP. If she had concerns there were better places to bring it up.


What did Mr. McKay suggest a few months ago? More info? Links?


Karzai Offers Talks with Taliban

Quote:
Afghan President Hamid Karzai has offered the Taliban a position in government if the group renounces violence, and Defence Minister Peter MacKay has supported the proposal.

The move, part of Karzai's stepped-up calls for negotiations in recent weeks, came as 30 people were killed by a bus blast in Kabul, the Afghan capital.


Quote:
Speaking in Halifax on Saturday, Defence Minister Peter MacKay backed Karzai's proposal, if it meant an end to violence against NATO forces.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
OTTAWA — For the second time in less than 24 hours, the NDP has been forced to issue an abject apology for falsely smearing a political opponent.

NDP House leader Libby Davies formally apologized Thursday on behalf of her party for spreading allegations that a Liberal candidate in the last federal election tried to bribe his NDP rival to drop out of the race.

“The New Democratic Party admits we seriously erred in making the allegations public and in putting a young and inexperienced candidate in a position where he felt justified in making those allegations and to repeat them on some 40 occasions to media across Canada,” Ms. Davies told the Commons.

Her profuse apology, required as part of a lawsuit settlement, couldn’t have been more badly timed for the NDP.


I guess Jack doesn't lead the party anymore. That's what we need in a Federal party leader. One who runs when the chicken come home to roost.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off-Topic:

Quote:
I don't understand how you can call him Taliban Jack for suggesting the same thing Peter McKay suggested just a few months ago. It's all fair as long as we refer to McKay as "Taliban Pete".


The big difference is that while both call for diplomacy, Layton calls for withdrawal and diplomacy. Mackay acknowledges diplomacy as one part of larger effort that includes reconstruction and security. There positions aren't at all similar, you're being disingenious.

On-Topic:

I take no pleasure in this current situation. A stronger NDP makes for a weaker Liberal Party.
Big Tuna





Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 368
Reputation: 15
votes: 6

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
Off-Topic:

Quote:
I don't understand how you can call him Taliban Jack for suggesting the same thing Peter McKay suggested just a few months ago. It's all fair as long as we refer to McKay as "Taliban Pete".


The big difference is that while both call for diplomacy, Layton calls for withdrawal and diplomacy. Mackay acknowledges diplomacy as one part of larger effort that includes reconstruction and security. There positions aren't at all similar, you're being disingenious.

...


still off-topic:

They're overall positions are different, and I certainly don't agree with Laytons but the fact is that the name Taliban Jack didn't come from him wanting to withdraw. The name came when he called for peace talks with the Taliban. Everyone ridiculed him. Now McKay supported the same thing.

It's just the way politics works. There's different standards for different parties. The left is always attacked more when it comes to things they say about national security. If it was a comment about abortion by Layton and a comment on abortion by McKay I'm sure things would be the other way around.

I'm just pointing out that if we treated both equally, they would either both be called "Taliban", or both not called that, depending on your position.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
Reputation: 93.9Reputation: 93.9
votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Tuna wrote:
I don't understand how you can call him Taliban Jack for suggesting the same thing Peter McKay suggested just a few months ago. It's all fair as long as we refer to McKay as "Taliban Pete".

Anyway, on topic, pretty stupid over reaction by the NDP. If she had concerns there were better places to bring it up.


Give me strength. If you want "fair" for name calling, how about we say that every party leader eats babies? Google "stephen harper" babies and see what I mean.

Get off you high horse.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one love Taliban Jack!, I hope he remains NDP leader for decades. If ever there was a leader who had hit his ceiling of support, it is Jack! Layton. I would love to see the NDP stalled at 12% for the next 300 years.

PS. The combination of Duceppe, Dion, and Layton all but guarantees an eventual CPC majority. Seriously, even Kim Campbell could win against these guys right now.

PPS. And don't even get me started on the blessing that is the Liberal candidate for Central Nova....
Big Tuna





Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 368
Reputation: 15
votes: 6

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palomino_pony wrote:
Big Tuna wrote:
I don't understand how you can call him Taliban Jack for suggesting the same thing Peter McKay suggested just a few months ago. It's all fair as long as we refer to McKay as "Taliban Pete".

Anyway, on topic, pretty stupid over reaction by the NDP. If she had concerns there were better places to bring it up.


Give me strength. If you want "fair" for name calling, how about we say that every party leader eats babies? Google "stephen harper" babies and see what I mean.

Get off you high horse.


Oh common, one was a prank by one computer hacker and the other was term widely used by many to insult Jack Layton for mentioning talking to the Taliban. Geez. No one is going around referring him to "Harper the Baby Eater"
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason Jack! Layton is wrong for wanting to talk to the taliban, is that it won't work. I will illustrate with the example of the IRA. The British stopped them militarily, they degenerated into an organized crime gang, they lost the respect and support of the Irish common man. The IRA unilaterally declared an end to hostilities, then and only then did the British government talk to them.

It is OK to talk with the taliban, but only after they have been completely defeated and forced into it. Talking to them now, when they still have strength, implies that they will be allowed to keep that strength, that they are a legitimate entity. That would be completely bad and counter productive. Once they are beaten, and their only hope of survival is unconditional surrender, then it will be OK to talk to them.
crazymamma





Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 1011
Reputation: 71.8
votes: 14
Location: The kitchen

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had always thought the name Taliban Jack was a nick name given by the Military in Afghanistan and it just took hold here back in Canada.
Vicki





Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 92
Reputation: 24Reputation: 24
votes: 2
Location: West Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the name Talban Jack was first coined by Jack Granatstein.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
Reputation: 131.2
votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was watching Duffy and his disgust with the NDP is refreshing to see. A journalist who is not in their back pocket and tells it like it is.

He said (and I paraphrase)

Quote:
This sort of thing is disgusting especially coming from a party that parades around with a holier than thou attitude on parliament hill looking down their nose at the rest of us!


Go Duff Go!
Louise M.





Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 243
Reputation: 61.6
votes: 1
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheesh, if Mathyssen saw a scantily clad woman on Moore's laptop, wait until she marches in the gay pride parade in London next summer. Then she'll have something to write home about. No wonder the NDP is still a fringe party.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 539
Reputation: 93.9Reputation: 93.9
votes: 3
Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Tuna wrote:
palomino_pony wrote:
Big Tuna wrote:
I don't understand how you can call him Taliban Jack for suggesting the same thing Peter McKay suggested just a few months ago. It's all fair as long as we refer to McKay as "Taliban Pete".

Anyway, on topic, pretty stupid over reaction by the NDP. If she had concerns there were better places to bring it up.


Give me strength. If you want "fair" for name calling, how about we say that every party leader eats babies? Google "stephen harper" babies and see what I mean.

Get off you high horse.


Oh common, one was a prank by one computer hacker and the other was term widely used by many to insult Jack Layton for mentioning talking to the Taliban. Geez. No one is going around referring him to "Harper the Baby Eater"


Did you read any blogs around the time this happened or do you have a selective memory? The "baby eater" slur was spread around the internet so quick and it had traction for a long time after that as an insult towards Harper. It was not isolated to "one computer hacker". It doesn't bother me, but what does bother me is that people who complain when the shoe is on the other foot. Suck it up princess.
gc





Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 1698
Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4Reputation: 48.4
votes: 16
Location: A Monochromatic World

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
The reason Jack! Layton is wrong for wanting to talk to the taliban, is that it won't work.

Don't forget that Hamid Karzai also wants to "talk" to the taliban. Since we are trying to instill democracy in Afghanistan, shouldn't we listen to their democratically elected leader?
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I say the big difference between the positions of Karzai / Mackay and that of Layton, is that Layton think its possible to immediately lay down arms and then negotiate. That is not bargaining from a position of strength. That is tantamount to surrender.
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