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TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
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votes: 5

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
TorontoCon wrote:
The problem is that the majority of Canadians don't know they are using or consuming goods that can harm them.

I'm not so idealistic as you. Life is about making choices. Choosing NOT to educate yourself about what you consume is still a choice. In many cases, Canadians deliberately choose products which they know to be harmful. How is that the government's responsibility?

TorontoCon wrote:
I'm pretty sure that all the parents that bought toys for their kids or use plastic baby bottles didn't knowingly try to harm their own children (referring of course to the cancer causing agents therein)...

Again, I'm not so idealistic as you. Plastic bottle are cheap and we all know plastics aren't as chemically stable as glass but plastic is cheap and reasonably unbreakable. That's why people buy it. The possible carcinogen effects are ignored for the convenience.

TorontoCon wrote:
Regulation is part of the government's job. Conservative or otherwise. Both provincially and federally.

Regulation, yes. Nanny state, no. The constant pressure to push government jurisdiction further and further into the lives of citizens must be resisted at all costs or else we will lose our liberty.

TorontoCon wrote:
And I'd have to argue that investment in education on these issues as well as better regulation of carcinogens in our products is a MUCH smaller investment than what Cancer ITSELF costs taxpayers in Canada.

Without meaning any disrespect, I suspect you're being a bit naive. Companies aren't knowingly producing carcinogens trying to trick consumers. Their goal is to manufacture products which are profitable. They try to balance cost with quality and create items which sell well and don't cause problems. Where they get into trouble is when they send the manufacturing overseas to save money on labour costs since they lose control over the quality control processes.

I would argue it is rarely governments who discover product flaws or dangers. It is consumers and consumer protection groups like the CSA, the ULA and others. Once the danger is exposed, it is not the government who publicizes it, it is the media. So realistically, all the government does is spend money to confirm what is already known... and regulation becomes a moot point since economic power and the courts can just as easily resolve the concern.

TorontoCon wrote:
Prevention is key to reducing these high costs to both our wallets and more importantly (don't forget), our HEALTH and LIVES.

When prevention becomes the responsibility of the government as opposed to the responsibility of the individual, the nanny state has arrived. Why use is your health if you don't have liberty? I'm sure most zoo animals are healthy.

-Mac


Wow. It's amazing how different we think on this particular issue.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TorontoCon wrote:
Wow. It's amazing how different we think on this particular issue.

Diversity of thought isn't a bad thing and makes for a much better discussion than an "echo chamber" where everyone is afraid to disagree.

-Mac
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Craig wrote:
My wife is a doctor and treats cancer patients with radiation. The hardest part of her job

Wow, your wife has a Ph.D. in physics and is a medical doctor? Pretty impressive :D


She isn't an M.D. After doing her Ph.D she did a residency in medical physics. She now does treatment plans for cancer patients and maintains the linear accelerators. Still pretty impressive though. She is cross-appointed as a professor in the department of medicine at the University too.
gc





Joined: 23 Jun 2007
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Location: A Monochromatic World

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
She isn't an M.D. After doing her Ph.D she did a residency in medical physics. She now does treatment plans for cancer patients and maintains the linear accelerators. Still pretty impressive though. She is cross-appointed as a professor in the department of medicine at the University too.

Oh I see. You're right though - pretty impressive nonetheless.
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
Reputation: 50.5
votes: 5

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
TorontoCon wrote:
Wow. It's amazing how different we think on this particular issue.

Diversity of thought isn't a bad thing and makes for a much better discussion than an "echo chamber" where everyone is afraid to disagree.

-Mac


Totally agree and I respect your opinion.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cancer is caused by such a wide variety of things. I hate to say this but the chemo and radiation is only going to kill you. I have lost both parents to cancer. Recently in Atlantic Canada there were over 300 women misdiagnosed with cancer. Of the ones who have already gone through conventional cancer treatments, most of them died, and they never had cancer in the first place. Hospitals do not test you for nutritional deficiencies. You must take control of your health. My all time favourite website is www.doctoryourself.com From this site, we are using the muscular dystrophy protocol on my friend's 6 year old and he is doing great and getting stronger all the time. There are many alternative cancer therapies at www.bccancer.ca (on the left side click on unconventional therapies) Also check out this one from my friend Michael in the UK www.healthrevolutions.com Please review Dr. Joe Mercola's site at www.mercola.com for all the latest breaking health news. When you go to this site, search "the smoking tooth" and find out why Health Canada has been advising dentists since 1996 to use something other than amalgam (mercury) fillings. I have also found out that all cancer tumours have one thing in common, pesticides, 100%. If I ever found out that I had cancer, I would probably try the cesium first. Cancer cannot live in an alkaline body.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
I hate to say this but the chemo and radiation is only going to kill you.


That's B.S.

My wife works with cancer patients every single day. She treats them with radiation. The statistics on this are clear - survival rates are MUCH higher for people who are treated with chemo and radiation.

I remember when my wife was in college she had a friend who took the "natural" route. I believe she had a leukemia or lymphoma - both of which are often highly treatable with radiation and chemo - and she refused treatment and died.

Mario Lemieux would be dead now if not for chemo and radiation and Blake would be on death row too.

My personal trainer at the gym had bone cancer at sixteen. He went through TWO YEARS of chemo and radiation. Doctors told him he would be lucky to survive, would never have hair, and wouldn't be able to walk. He now has plenty of hair, is my personal trainer (i.e. walks very, very well) and is perfectly healthy. He would be in a coffin if not for treatment.

Uninformed statements by naturalists do serious harm.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
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votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Craig, believe me, I am informed. The only reason your personal trainer is still alive is because he has made a lifestyle change. I guess it all depends if you believe in your cancer therapy. If you feel that it's going to work for you, it probably will. For awhile, but if you make no necessary changes, then it will all be for nothing. The cancer will come back because you haven't removed what's causing it.
TorontoCon





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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a trained scientist and let me tell you, Cancer is a complicated beast. No "lifestyle change" is going to halt the growth of any tumor. We've been trying to beat this disease for a loooooong time now with practically every approach you can think of.

Do you understand the genetics of what is going on?

Are you telling me that a lifestyle change can fix altered DNA?

C'mon now...

Don't give false hopes to desperate people. While eating right, exercising and perhaps taking nutritional supplements HELP by keeping your body (and immune system) in top working condition (considering the disease), that alone will NOT cure you of Cancer.

These conspiracy theories against pharmaceutical companies are getting out of hand.

It's killing people literally. Those who refuse treatment just die and those who claim to be cured just want to sell books to naive people who buy into that hogwash.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheila wrote:
Hi Craig, believe me, I am informed. The only reason your personal trainer is still alive is because he has made a lifestyle change.


:shock:
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="TorontoCon"]I'm a trained scientist and let me tell you, Cancer is a complicated beast. No "lifestyle change" is going to halt the growth of any tumor. We've been trying to beat this disease for a loooooong time now with practically every approach you can think of.

Do you understand the genetics of what is going on?

Are you telling me that a lifestyle change can fix altered DNA?

C'mon now...

Don't give false hopes to desperate people. While eating right, exercising and perhaps taking nutritional supplements HELP by keeping your body (and immune system) in top working condition (considering the disease), that alone will NOT cure you of Cancer.

These conspiracy theories against pharmaceutical companies are getting out of hand.

It's killing people literally. Those who refuse treatment just die and those who claim to be cured just want to sell books to naive people who buy into that hogwash.[/quote

While I appreciate your concern, I would also like to point out that readers can determine if it's "hogwash" for themselves. Are you trying to make this blog into a "nanny state"? That is the great thing about educating yourself, with the internet you can find anything you want. You don't have to take your doctor's word for it anymore. You can find study after study after study, and after reading all the studies, you can make up your own mind. Who do you know of personally who has refused treatment and died? If you're like me, the only ones you know that never pulled through, were the ones that went through chemo and radiation. Have you ever heard of Essiac?
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem that I find with naturalists is the same problem I have with atheists. Just as atheists seem compelled to ridicule Christianity, naturalists feel compelled to ridicule modern medicine.

I'm a big fan of natural therapies. I think they should be used in concert with modern medicine. I also think we should question BOTH natural therapies AND modern medicine.

But chemo and radiation are highly effective in treating MANY forms of cancer. It has little effect on melanoma, indolent lymphoma, pancreatic cancer, etc. but is extremely effective for both extending the survival time in most other cancers and in actually curing several aggressive forms of leukemia, lymphoma, breast cancer, and others.
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
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votes: 5

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you look into the following website:

www.pubmed.com

From there you can find REPUTABLE, peer-reviewed journals to read. Any kook out there can post anything they want on the internet.... doesn't mean that it's true.

In the scientific community, NOTHING gets published until it has been scrutinized to the "Nth degree" by a panel of experts in the field. It is extremely difficult to publish REAL data.

Here's a short list of the top journals.

Nature
Nature Medicine
Nature Immunology
Science
Cell

There are many others with high rating or "impact factors" for you to read. They require a subscription to read the full articles but you can read the "abstract" (synopsis) and if there is a particular article that you think is worth reading, you could get it as a special order or if you have a friend that is a student or professor, you can also ask them for a favor.

Good luck in your search and remember NOT to believe everything you read on hack websites...

I could go out there, make a website right now saying that I have the "cure" for colon cancer. All you need to do is drink the pee of a pregnant horse. Claim that the pharmacutical companies have a stranglehold on drugs and since I've patented it, they won't touch it. Then jabber on about a conspiracy that the government is preventing the cure for cancer because the Canadian economy relies on people getting sick. Then put on a suit (to look professional), post an amateur talk/seminar on youtube.com about my "miracle cure", write a book and wait for some poor suckers to buy into my "HOOPLAH".

Then I laugh my way to the bank while people die drinking horse piss instead of getting REAL treatment.....

Sick A-holes out there are getting rich selling false hopes.

Get with it. Why the war on Science?

Study after study after study have shown MAJOR advancements in chemotherapy/radiation therapies and clinical outcomes. It's just a fact you cannot deny. Does chemo cause a "stress" on the body that can lead to other cancers? sometimes yes. But the VAST majority of patients benefit. VAST majority.
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 796
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votes: 5

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
The problem that I find with naturalists is the same problem I have with atheists. Just as atheists seem compelled to ridicule Christianity, naturalists feel compelled to ridicule modern medicine.

I'm a big fan of natural therapies. I think they should be used in concert with modern medicine. I also think we should question BOTH natural therapies AND modern medicine.

But chemo and radiation are highly effective in treating MANY forms of cancer. It has little effect on melanoma, indolent lymphoma, pancreatic cancer, etc. but is extremely effective for both extending the survival time in most other cancers and in actually curing several aggressive forms of leukemia, lymphoma, breast cancer, and others.


Yes that's right. Pancreatic Cancer and some other forms that are more TISSUE related (ass opposed to CELL related, like lukemia) are still the most difficult to treat and even the best going therapies right now are not as effective as we'd like....

And I also agree that Naturopathy IN CONCERT WITH (but not REPLACING) traditional medical treatment is the way to go. Even meditation and psychotherapy in addition to diet and exercise.
Sheila





Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 556
Reputation: -6.8
votes: 16
Location: Central Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TorontoCon wrote:

And I also agree that Naturopathy IN CONCERT WITH (but not REPLACING) traditional medical treatment is the way to go. Even meditation and psychotherapy in addition to diet and exercise.


At the risk of boring the hell out of everyone, I just want to tell you what happened to me last summer. My master herbalist found a lump in my breast and told me to go and see my doctor. I went for a full medical exam with blood tests, etc. My doctor advised me that I should have a mammogram. He was pretty sure it was a tear in the pericardium (spelling?). He told me it was quite common and was caused by heavy lifting (I'm guilty). He said he could feel the same thing in the same spot when he was jackhammering (not the typical doctor). I refused to go for a mammogram because if that was all it was, why bother. He told me if I came back in a month and the lump was smaller, he would not send me. So I came back and the lump was gone. If I had gone for a mammogram, that would have exposed me to radiation, and also consider the cost of the procedure. Not to mention the waiting (I have had two mammograms previously) and it's a lot of waiting and agonizing. Just his simple statement that it was more common than I realized, made me think. So are a lot of people being exposed to radiation, for nothing (when it comes to mammograms)?
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