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Craig
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Halloween cancelled at my kid's school Reply with quote

Because CERTAIN people objected. Is it too much to ask for my kids to grow up in a country of shared values. What is the point of a country?
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CERTAIN people objected?

Sorry I slooooooow, who the heck would be offended to kids dressing up goofy and eating ridiculous amounts of junk food?

Some people just need to suck the joy out of life for kids don't they?
Riley W





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably some pagans or wiccans.

Or their is some hardcore Christians (the same ones who object to Harry Potter) that object to this type of stuff.

The anti-Halloween/magical fantasy Christians in my region are the Mennonites.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Because CERTAIN people objected. Is it too much to ask for my kids to grow up in a country of shared values. What is the point of a country?


Who objected. Christians, Muslims, Hindu? I have reservations about Halloween but if it's good fun I don't see any harm. Took my 2 boys out and they had a blast. Dressed them as Spiderman and a pony. They were quite scared when the headless man with blood dripping walked by. I don't really feel comfortable with that kind of costume, but it's a free country.

Quote:
Or their is some hardcore Christians (the same ones who object to Harry Potter) that object to this type of stuff.

The anti-Halloween/magical fantasy Christians in my region are the Mennonites.


I believe in Christ as strong as anyone but don't force my beliefs on anyone. Many Christians don't trust God enough. They believe more in the power of the enemy to deceive them than the power of God to protect them. That's what is wrong with the Christian right in the States. They feel they have to wrest power from the Godless majority, when all they have to do is love people and follow God's commandments.That will change the world alot faster than getting your poiltical views made into laws.
Kafer





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My children had a blast this Halloween and so did I.

As for halloween in school, the last 2 years my children have not been able to wear their costumes. Well this year things changed. I guess the parents who enjoy halloween complained enough that they allowed costumes, as long as there was no blood, guts or weapons.
Craig
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westmanguy wrote:
Or their is some hardcore Christians (the same ones who object to Harry Potter) that object to this type of stuff.


If this was the case then Halloween would never have been allowed in the schools. The Christians are not the problem.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How sad for your kids! These creeps who took away Halloween from the school ought to consider that it's sort of the one holiday that's a fun day and it's not limited to any faith-group - instead it makes a person think of that 'other side of reality' that all faiths teach about! It's also incidentally the one and only holiday that most everyone happily 'give something'' to all strangers knocking at their door! :evil:

Last edited by don muntean on Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, just be thankful your kids were spared Satan's holiday. And cavities.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Hey, just be thankful your kids were spared Satan's holiday. And cavities.


Satan is a Persian myth - interpolated by the Hebrews in the fifth century B.C.E. we are to take the references to Satan in the Hebrew scriptures - as allegory.

That it not to say that there aren't evil spirits of various descriptions but - no Satan.

This is an easily verifiable point from the historical perspective.

In fact in Isaiah 45.7 - which is a text that is pre-exile - God says that He creates good and evil or peace and strife etc., - He is in control of the duality in which we find ourselves.

Considering this - one might want to think about how much much more unpleasant it would be to find ourselves - in opposition to God - God does indeed have a dark side! Dare one pity those that do end up seeing it...

The cavity part well - you have a point there but - that's nothing that some brushing cannot solve. :wink:
theatheistjew





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
westmanguy wrote:
Or their is some hardcore Christians (the same ones who object to Harry Potter) that object to this type of stuff.


If this was the case then Halloween would never have been allowed in the schools. The Christians are not the problem.


We don't need to be that politically correct here. Who exactly objected? I'm just curious which group has the clout to eliminate such an innocuous celebration. I can't see it being the Jews, but if it was, say it. I assume it was the Muslims. But why the mystery?
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, isn't this exactly the same behavior that you personally were doing to get McGuinty re-elected? Don't complain when somebody uses your own tactics on a cause you don't agree with.
theatheistjew





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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Hey, isn't this exactly the same behavior that you personally were doing to get McGuinty re-elected? Don't complain when somebody uses your own tactics on a cause you don't agree with.

I have been completely honest and I've hid nothing. My goal wasn't to get McGuinty to get elected more than I didn't want Tory to win with his idiotic faith based funding platform.

What tactics did I use? I answered everything honestly, and I was far from being PC about it.
Ruth





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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
Satan is a Persian myth - interpolated by the Hebrews in the fifth century B.C.E. we are to take the references to Satan in the Hebrew scriptures - as allegory.

Satan is translated as the accuser.
It's not very accurate to say he is interpolated from Persian myth, since he does appear in the book of Job. Job is possibly one of the oldest books in the Bible, predating the Persian Empire.

Quote:
In fact in Isaiah 45.7 - which is a text that is pre-exile - God says that He creates good and evil or peace and strife etc., - He is in control of the duality in which we find ourselves.

That is not what Isaiah 45:7 says. It says
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
While strife is an accurate substitute for disaster, moral evil is not an acceptable substitute for darkness, especially given the context of the verse.

Quote:
Considering this - one might want to think about how much much more unpleasant it would be to find ourselves - in opposition to God - God does indeed have a dark side!

God's justice is not His "dark" side. His justice is what He metes ot on those who oppose Him, but it is not "dark." It is holy.

-Ruth
don muntean





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruth wrote:
don muntean wrote:
Satan is a Persian myth - interpolated by the Hebrews in the fifth century B.C.E. we are to take the references to Satan in the Hebrew scriptures - as allegory.

Satan is translated as the accuser.

It's not very accurate to say he is interpolated from Persian myth, since he does appear in the book of Job. Job is possibly one of the oldest books in the Bible, predating the Persian Empire.



-Ruth


Satan in the Book of Job

The term "the Satan" appears in the prose prologue of Job, with his usual connotation of "the adversary," as a distinct being. He is shown as one of the celestial beings before the Deity, replying to the inquiry of YHVH as to whence he had come, with the words: "from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it" (Job 1:7). Both the question and the answer, as well as the dialogue that ensues, characterize Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, as it were, a celestial "prosecutor," who sees only iniquity; for he persists in his evil opinion of Job even after the man of Uz has passed successfully through his first trial by surrendering to the will of YHVH, whereupon Satan demands another test through physical suffering (Job 2:3-5). Satan challenges YHVH by saying that Job's belief is only built upon what material goods he is given, and that his faith will disappear as soon as they are taken from him. And YHVH accepts the challenge.

The introduction of "the adversary" occurs in the (very short) framing story alone: he is never alluded to in the (very long) central poem at all, although hades is mentioned in the central poem.

While many, from a Christian perspective, believe Satan to be the Devil, in the Book of Job he is presented as a worker for YHVH known as the "the satan" (ha-satan, 'the adversary'), not Satan as a personal name. He is the ultimate prosecutor for God. [2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Job
don muntean





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Ruth"]
don muntean wrote:


Quote:
In fact in Isaiah 45.7 - which is a text that is pre-exile - God says that He creates good and evil or peace and strife etc., - He is in control of the duality in which we find ourselves.


That is not what Isaiah 45:7 says. It says I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

While strife is an accurate substitute for disaster, moral evil is not an acceptable substitute for darkness, especially given the context of the verse.

-Ruth


The context is duality of which God is the creator and the controller.

In your thread Free will vs. election we had this discussion about moral evil and that God created the yetza hara - the evil inclination referred to in Genesis 8.21:

"The impulse of man's heart was evil from the time he was expelled from his mother's womb."

So the origins of moral evil lie in the heart and while God isn't responsible for our choices He is the creator of the results.

God is the creator of everything - including evil.
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