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Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Welcome to my new religion Reply with quote

It is called Handicapia. These are the main tenets of my religion...

1. Disabled people should pay extra taxes (and be killed if they refuse).
2. Disabled people should be subservient to able-bodied people (and be killed if they refuse).
3. Female disabled people may not laugh in public or be seen with male disabled people.
4. Disabled people can't sing anything but songs about disabled people.
5. Female disabled people are not allowed to drive wheelchairs.

If you hate my religion are you a bigot? Yes.

Is hating my religion a good thing? Yes.

If 2 billion people adhered to my religion would hating it still be a good thing? Not likely.

If many of those 2 billion people lived in democracies and voted would hating it still be a good thing? Definitely not.

Don't not hate a religion out of fear of being called a bigot. Simply calling something a religion doesn't make it immune from criticism. Simply because lots of people follow a religion shouldn't make it exempt from criticism.
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: Welcome to my new religion Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Don't not hate a religion out of fear of being called a bigot. Simply calling something a religion doesn't make it immune from criticism. Simply because lots of people follow a religion shouldn't make it exempt from criticism.


There is nothing wrong with criticizing religious beliefs. The problem is when you make broad generalizations. Hating someone because their religious beliefs are that a woman is a second-class citizen is fine. Hating everyone who happens to belong to that same religion, even if they strongly believe in equality for men and women, is when it becomes a problem.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:56 am    Post subject: Re: Welcome to my new religion Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Hating everyone who happens to belong to that same religion, even if they strongly believe in equality for men and women, is when it becomes a problem.


So I can hate all Muslims who refuse to admit that the Koran is wrong when it says that all non believers should be killed?

Sounds fair to me.
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: Welcome to my new religion Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
So I can hate all Muslims who refuse to admit that the Koran is wrong when it says that all non believers should be killed?

Sounds fair to me.


Of course...as long as you hate all Christians who do the same...
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bible says to love your neighbor, not kill infidels. Big difference, unless you are just looking for moral equivalence I guess. If that is the case, by all means go on talking about the church down the block being just as dangerous as a suicide vest wearing Muslim....
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
The Bible says to love your neighbor, not kill infidels.


Actually, the bible does say to kill infidels. This is straight from the bible, Deuteronomy 13:1-18

Quote:
1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things shall be found in your hands, so that the LORD will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the LORD your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Welcome to my new religion Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Craig wrote:
So I can hate all Muslims who refuse to admit that the Koran is wrong when it says that all non believers should be killed?

Sounds fair to me.


Of course...as long as you hate all Christians who do the same...


Why? Christians don't want to kill me. I would prefer to hate the people who want to kill me. I'll risk being called a hypocrite if it reduces the chances of my head being separated from my shoulders.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell you what GC, you spend five years in the heart of Christian country (say Georgia) and then spend five years in the heart of Muslim country (say north western Pakistan) and we'll see where a non-believer such as yourself fares better.
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Welcome to my new religion Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Why? Christians don't want to kill me. I would prefer to hate the people who want to kill me.


And you are free to do so...just recognize that the vast majority of Muslims don't want to kill you.
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Tell you what GC, you spend five years in the heart of Christian country (say Georgia) and then spend five years in the heart of Muslim country (say north western Pakistan) and we'll see where a non-believer such as yourself fares better.


Why? It's irrelevant to the point I am trying to make.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is relevant.

I constantly hear the "radical islam is just as bad as radical christianity" (roHOEsie HOE'Donnel).

Go live in the midwest United States in a rural Evangelical town for a year.

Then we can send you to Iran or Sandia Arabia for a year and see what you think...
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westmanguy wrote:
I think it is relevant.

I constantly hear the "radical islam is just as bad as radical christianity" (roHOEsie HOE'Donnel).

Go live in the midwest United States in a rural Evangelical town for a year.

Then we can send you to Iran or Sandia Arabia for a year and see what you think...


That's not the argument I am trying to make at all. You are missing the point. I am trying to argue that the vast majority of Muslims are not radicals who want to kill you. Some people, however, either think that all Muslims are radicals, or they lump the moderates in with the radicals.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
I am trying to argue that the vast majority of Muslims are not radicals who want to kill you.


A poll presented on a Muslim friendly website...

60% of people in Jordon support Bin Laden
45% of people in Pakistan support Bin Laden

"vast Majority" might be a bit of a stretch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4684989.stm
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
A poll presented on a Muslim friendly website...

60% of people in Jordon support Bin Laden
45% of people in Pakistan support Bin Laden

"vast Majority" might be a bit of a stretch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4684989.stm


A lot of those people don't think that bin laden was behind the 9/11 hijackings. There is a huge difference between thinking bin laden is innocent and supporting the death of Americans. Even in America, some 1/3 of Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job...but that doesn't mean that 1/3 of Americans want to kill you.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Actually, the bible does say to kill infidels. This is straight from the bible, Deuteronomy 13:1-18


Old Testament - These verses are dealing with capital punishment which many States in the world today still practice.

I'm surprised you didn't use the verses where God told the Israelites to kill all the peoples in the Promised land they were invading. It's a better example of killing the infidels than what you quoted.


Anyway, this was before Jesus fulfilled the law. He preached Love thy neighbour. If you are a Christain you follow Christ's teachings and realize the Old testament was written to show that man could not keep the commands of God, and needed a saviour to die for our sins instead.

I wonder if Winston or some one else could give us a view of the "Kill the Infidel" verses in the Koran and how they are interpreted.
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