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gc





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
When people kill in the name of a religion then that RELIGION should bear some of the responsibility. That is what this thread is about.

Do you agree that radical Muslims and moderate Muslims have different (religious) beliefs?

Quote:
Any Canadian who considers themselves more loyal to another country should be stripped of their citizenship.

So, half of Canada should be stripped of their citizenship??
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
There are lots of verses in the New Testament concerning homosexuality and capital punishment that can be quoted also. But you having read the Bible should know that.

Doesn't change what I said. Many Christians use verses in the Old testament to back up their point.
Quote:
Where the hell do you get off talking about hating the Jews! I don't hate anyone. I care deeply for the Jewish nation, after all my saviour is a Jew.

Never said you did.
Quote:
That part of the Bible is not wrong!
Deuteronomy describes things that happened around 1500B.C. when Israel was a tribe wandering the desert trying to seize by force a land that was occupied by others. It was culturally relevant for the time it was written. The verses you quote where written in a time of war for Israel. If you look at penalties for crimes during war they are usually much more severe than in peace time.

It's not just a description of what is happening, it's God commanding people to kill those who worship other Gods! If it was describing an event that happened, that would be one thing, but that's not what those verses were.
biggie





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:

Quote:
Any Canadian who considers themselves more loyal to another country should be stripped of their citizenship.

So, half of Canada should be stripped of their citizenship??


I highly doubt half of Canadians are more loyal to other countries...
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
I highly doubt half of Canadians are more loyal to other countries...


So do I, but I think Craig was trying to imply that Muslims who do not want to go to war with a Muslim country are more loyal to another country, which would mean that Canadians who do not want to go to war with a Muslim country are also more loyal to another country...but I'll let Craig clarify for himself.
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any idea how many holidays your new religion is going to have?
Corbett





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
A lot of those people don't think that bin laden was behind the 9/11 hijackings.


How could that possibly be an excuse? It merely shines more light on the extent of their delusion.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
biggie wrote:
I highly doubt half of Canadians are more loyal to other countries...


So do I, but I think Craig was trying to imply that Muslims who do not want to go to war with a Muslim country are more loyal to another country, which would mean that Canadians who do not want to go to war with a Muslim country are also more loyal to another country...but I'll let Craig clarify for himself.


I can't find the original poll. The poll question was phrased in such a way that they wouldn't defend their country from Muslim attack.

Anyway,

Quote:
Almost 10% Of Muslims Support Suicide Attacks

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....ge_id=1770

Quote:
The Populus survey for The Times and ITV News has found that more than one in ten thinks that the men who carried out the London bombings of 7/7 should be regarded as “martyrs”. Sixteen per cent of British Muslims, equivalent to more than 150,000 adults, believe that while the attacks were wrong, the cause was right.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....682599.ece

Quote:
At least 32% believe that “there is a natural conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society.”


Quote:
Five percent of America’s 2.35 million Muslims declared that they hold a favorable view of al Qaeda, but 27% of the Muslims surveyed refused to answer that question.


Quote:
The 32% that expressed support for al Qaeda, or declined to condemn them, represents more than 600,000 Muslims in the United States.


Quote:
20,000 Muslims in America have a “very favorable view” of al Qaeda and that another 80,000 have a “somewhat favorable” view


Any questions?
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Do you agree that radical Muslims and moderate Muslims have different (religious) beliefs?


The five degress of Islam...

1. Active radicals (most dangerous)
2. Passive radicals
3. Indifferent
4. Passive opponents
5. Active opponents (Hirsi Ali is one of few)

In percentage terms (my estimates)...

1. 5%
2. 35%
3. 35%
4. 24%
5. 1%

And I've provided polls that back up my assertions.
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corbett wrote:
How could that possibly be an excuse? It merely shines more light on the extent of their delusion.


I never said they weren't delusional. However, it's a far cry to say that because they are delusional that they want you dead. As I mentioned before, 1/3 of America believes 9/11 was an inside job, but that doesn't equate to 1/3 of Americans wanting you dead, which is I think what was originally implied.
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Quote:
Almost 10% Of Muslims Support Suicide Attacks

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....ge_id=1770


Ok, so 5-10% of Muslims support suicide bombing. What of the other 90-95%? Should we view them unfavourably just because they are Muslims?
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
gc wrote:
Do you agree that radical Muslims and moderate Muslims have different (religious) beliefs?


The five degress of Islam...

1. Active radicals (most dangerous)
2. Passive radicals
3. Indifferent
4. Passive opponents
5. Active opponents (Hirsi Ali is one of few)

In percentage terms (my estimates)...

1. 5%
2. 35%
3. 35%
4. 24%
5. 1%

And I've provided polls that back up my assertions.

I disagree with "passive radicals". Just because someone is not speaking out against terrorism does not make them a radical.
I would say the breakdown is more like this:
1. Radicals: 5%
2. Muslims who would rather not get involved in the conflict: 45%
3. Muslims who actively oppose the radicals: 50%

2 & 3 are estimates.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Just because someone is not speaking out against terrorism does not make them a radical.


Correct. That's why I had an indifferent category.

But if I supported the KKK but didn't attend their meetings I would be a passive radical.
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
But if I supported the KKK but didn't attend their meetings I would be a passive radical.

Define "support". I haven't publicly spoken out against the KKK, even though I am white. I assume that you (if you are white), and many others, haven't either. Does that mean we passively support the KKK?
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Craig wrote:
But if I supported the KKK but didn't attend their meetings I would be a passive radical.

Define "support". I haven't publicly spoken out against the KKK, even though I am white. I assume that you (if you are white), and many others, haven't either. Does that mean we passively support the KKK?


There is no way to prove passive support because most people would not admit publicly if they supported Al Qaeda or the KKK. I would define it as voting for elected officials with dubious stances (as an example) or donating to a questionable charity like Hezbollah.
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
There is no way to prove passive support because most people would not admit publicly if they supported Al Qaeda or the KKK. I would define it as voting for elected officials with dubious stances (as an example) or donating to a questionable charity like Hezbollah.

So, where did you get the 35% figure for passive support?
Ok, so we can't prove whether someone is passively supporting al qaeda or the kkk, does that mean we should judge white people unfavourably because they might be passively supporting the kkk and we can't prove that they aren't?
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