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gc





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Cults brainwash people

Define "brainwashing"
Quote:
they prey upon people who either don't know, or are unable to defend themselves

How so? Who are the people they are preying on?
Quote:
cults actively prevent people from leaving.

How so? By force?
Quote:
Cults confiscate your personal property

How so? By physically taking it, or by asking for it?
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cultfaq.org/cultfaq.....shing.html

A lot of questions can be answered there. Sometimes, people are prevented from leaving by force. This is generally the case when you have all the members living in a cult compound.

http://www.rickross.com/deprogramming.html

I have never personally witnessed the power that a cult can gain over a person, and I hope that I never do.
gc





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
http://www.cultfaq.org/cultfaq-answers-brainwashing.html

A lot of questions can be answered there. Sometimes, people are prevented from leaving by force. This is generally the case when you have all the members living in a cult compound.

http://www.rickross.com/deprogramming.html

I have never personally witnessed the power that a cult can gain over a person, and I hope that I never do.


According to wikipedia, a cult is "a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception."

While some cults may engage in illegal activities, that doesn't necessarily mean that all cults do. So what is wrong with a person believing in a cult, so long as that cult is not physically preventing people from leaving or stealing their possessions, etc.?
gc





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should also note that you link about brainwashing says this:

"e.g. convincing a person that leaving the group means losing one's salvation"

Sounds like most organized religions...
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please explain to me how the public system is secular and not just disturbingly Politically correct. This year parents of a local PUBLIC SCHOOL were asked not to send snacks etc, during Ramadan. They felt it would be difficult on the Muslim kids to see others eating while they were fasting. EXCUSE ME!!!!! Fasting and the observance of Ramadan is religious isn't it?

Kids that did bring snacks were sequestered in a different room as to not offend the Muslim kids. How is that secular?

Also why is it now that hot dogs purchased for school special lunches have to be Halal? Pretty sure we are not required to buy kosher hot dogs.Isn't the need for Hale foods also a religious requirement? How is that a secular PUBLIC SYSTEM?


Last edited by crazymamma on Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Zak





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:

Kids that did bring snacks were sequestered in a different room as to not offend the Muslim kids. How is that secular?


It isn't and should be stopped. Muslims, just like Christians, need to realise that they don't have the right to force their views on others through tax-funded institutions.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Atheists are the only ones who should be allowed to force their views on others through taxpayer funded institutions.
Zak





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Yes, Atheists are the only ones who should be allowed to force their views on others through taxpayer funded institutions.


They don't. Even if there is no religion being funded in the public sphere, it does not mean it is atheist.
gc





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Yes, Atheists are the only ones who should be allowed to force their views on others through taxpayer funded institutions.


How are they forcing their views?
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at this thread. Equating Branch Davidians to Baptists, legitimate religion to dangerous cults. The very public attacks on Stockwell Day (Barney anyone?). The one thing I don't understand, is how these radical secularists expect Western society to continue to exist after they remove one of the pillars that it was built on. Whether you admit it or not, the West was built on Judeo Christian values; now these values are being removed.

All Christian thought is being removed from the public space. It is not a good thing, but people will most likely not realize that until it is too late.
Zak





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Whether you admit it or not, the West was built on Judeo Christian values; now these values are being removed.


Judeo Christian values existed before Judeo Christian religions so that argument is flawed. You can have ethics and values without religion.

Because secularism allows religious freedom in private life, the only people who feel their religion is being threatened by secularism should be the people who are so weak in their faith that they require governments to keep them alive.

I say let the free market decide which religions survive, and keep the government out.
Ruth





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zak wrote:
Judeo Christian values existed before Judeo Christian religions


Please provide a historical argument to support this statement. I would like names, dates, societies and their religions and values.

-Ruth
gc





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
The very public attacks on Stockwell Day (Barney anyone?).


While I don't agree with poking fun of someone for their beliefs, that is a far cry from saying that atheists are "forcing their views on others through taxpayer funded institutions."

Of course, I'm sure if the leader of a national political party came out and said that he/she was an atheist, they would be criticized for it as well...oh wait, how many leaders have openly declared that they are atheist?
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Removing the Lord's Prayer from schools, removing Gideon Bibles from school. Removing Christmas trees from public property. Removing the word Christmas from public usage. How is Atheism not being forced on people? Christians have never forced anyone to sing Christmas carols, or put up a Christmas tree. Atheists have forced people to stop singing carols, and take religious stuff down.
gc





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Removing the Lord's Prayer from schools, removing Gideon Bibles from school. Removing Christmas trees from public property. Removing the word Christmas from public usage. How is Atheism not being forced on people? Christians have never forced anyone to sing Christmas carols, or put up a Christmas tree. Atheists have forced people to stop singing carols, and take religious stuff down.


You are trying to equate removing religion from schools with forcing atheist beliefs on people. There is a difference between the school not promoting religion and it promoting atheism. If a school doesn't teach kids about sexuality, does that mean they are forcing celibate beliefs on kids??

Atheists are not preventing people from singing Christmas carols. You are free to do so. You are also still free to put up a Christmas tree in your own home. If you want to put them up on public property, I hope you are willing to let people put up whichever religious symbols they want. If a satan worshipper wants to put up a sign that says "satan rules" in school, or a strong-atheist wants to put up a sign that says "God is imaginary", I hope you are okay with that. It's all or nothing, unless you want to admit that certain religions (i.e. Christianity) have preference over others.


Last edited by gc on Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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