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Triple_R





Joined: 20 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Triple_R wrote:
After having watched numerous documentaries (both pro and con) on the concept of man-made global warming, I'm strongly leaning towards the position that the issue has been grossly exaggerated by many people in positions of influence and power. Basically, I think that a mountain has been made out of a molehill when it comes to this issue.

I suspect that 20 to 30 years down the line, people will look back on this period of time (2005 to 2010) with quite a bit of laughing and mocking over the huge deal that was made out of global warming. In 20 to 30 years, I think that we'll see that we made a huge deal out of something that wasn't anywhere near as dire as some suspected, and a lot of folks (including Al Gore) will have egg on their face, especially if they're still alive at the time.

Honestly, I hope that the Conservatives are simply saying just enough on the environment to not cost themselves a lot of votes on the issue, but don't intend to do a whole lot on the issue.
You mean, taking the Liberal position?


Well, we have three options here.

Take the Liberal position (say all the 'right things', but do virtually nothing on the issue).

Actually say all the 'right things', and actually act on them (economically disasterous).

Say the truth which isn't the 'right thing to say', and potentially get killed politically for it.


Neither option is all that appealing, but the second option is the worst of all.


I think that even Elizabeth May knows that Kyoto, and Global Warming, has been blown out of proportion (hence her discussion with Mike Duffy last night where she felt that the Throne Speech did not deserve to be brought down on the issue of the environment alone). However, most Canadians are still, sadly, duped on the matter, and that won't be changed anytime soon.

I've actually had some environmentalist folks more or less admit to me that the whole global warming issue is simply a smokescreen to help curb air pollution - that it's a manufactured crisis designed to make people want less greenhouse gas emissions, which in turn would lead to cleaner air.

Simply saying "we should have cleaner air" doesn't motivate people the way that "if we don't get cleaner air, our world will fry" does.

Mind you, as much as I like cleaner air, it's not worth destroying our economy over...
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it not be ironic if Elizabeth May, the leader of another party, turned out to be Dion's most loyal backer? I guess the Liberal candidate in Central Nova can be counted on to toe the Liberal line, even if no one else can.
centrifugal





Joined: 25 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Simply saying "we should have cleaner air" doesn't motivate people the way that "if we don't get cleaner air, our world will fry" does.


Unfortunately the truth is boring and the only way to push your political agenda is to make some gross exageration of the truth. Liberals seem to be the worse offenders of this, although I noticed the PC party started doing the same thing in liberal attack ads last election. I hate it when parties need to spread propoganda for politcal gain, liberal or conservative.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luca wrote:
What do people think of the mention of higher education costs?

Education at all levels is provincial jurisdiction. This is just another area where the Liberals misused their taxation/transfer payment arrangement to coerce desired changes. With the Liberals, it's always the old "carrot & stick" game.

-Mac
kwlafayette





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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
luca wrote:
What do people think of the mention of higher education costs?

Education at all levels is provincial jurisdiction. This is just another area where the Liberals misused their taxation/transfer payment arrangement to coerce desired changes. With the Liberals, it's always the old "carrot & stick" game.

-Mac

I think anything worth having is worth paying for, and working hard for. How much is a free education worth?
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
I think anything worth having is worth paying for, and working hard for. How much is a free education worth?

About what you paid for it, I suppose. Isn't free education like free health care in that "free" is a relative term?

-Mac
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7516
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votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Triple_R wrote:
After having watched numerous documentaries (both pro and con) on the concept of man-made global warming, I'm strongly leaning towards the position that the issue has been grossly exaggerated by many people in positions of influence and power. Basically, I think that a mountain has been made out of a molehill when it comes to this issue.

I suspect that 20 to 30 years down the line, people will look back on this period of time (2005 to 2010) with quite a bit of laughing and mocking over the huge deal that was made out of global warming. In 20 to 30 years, I think that we'll see that we made a huge deal out of something that wasn't anywhere near as dire as some suspected, and a lot of folks (including Al Gore) will have egg on their face, especially if they're still alive at the time.

Honestly, I hope that the Conservatives are simply saying just enough on the environment to not cost themselves a lot of votes on the issue, but don't intend to do a whole lot on the issue.


I recall thumbing through a National Geographic from the early 1970's within the last year,

There was a 12 page article about the "Pending Ice Age" and how certain things that modern industry was doing was going to advance the glaciers and some of the more alarmist environmental scientists has assumed that by 2010 it was possible that much of Canada and some of the Northern United States may be affected by the aggressive glaciers moving South.

What the ultimate irony was is that some of the Scientists quoted were on the list of Scientists and "In the know" people that attended the global warming conference in Paris earlier this year that concluded "Global Warming is probably happening and its probably caused by man".

I don't understand why people see these Scientists as any different then marketing exec from a fortune 500 company.

The only way you get people to act is by scaring them with doom and gloom, and the more you scare them normally the less firm the science behind the theory,

Its also interesting to think that average Canadians don't think there is a "Green Lobby". How many Billions of dollars do some of these "green" firms stand to make if Kyoto is crammed down industries throat?

Kyoto and Global Warming is just as much about dollars as it is about "Saving the World"
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
Kyoto and Global Warming is just as much about dollars as it is about "Saving the World"

I think you've overstated the case. Kyoto and "global warming" have nothing to do with environment; it's all about the money.

-Mac
luca





Joined: 05 Oct 2007
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Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here comes Dion's speech
Ruth





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignatieff looks like he is in pain. I almost feel sorry for him.
Dion is such a bad speaker. You can tell he's trying to sound tough, but really. It's just so bad.

-Ruth
mr_cheevus





Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 19
Reputation: 18Reputation: 18

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and? I didn't have a chance to watch.

Waiting with bated breath.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, no election. Next election, as scheduled, October 19 2009.

PS. I have never seen a PM exhibit so much restraint in not calling an opportunistic election. Harper really does have some principles.


Last edited by kwlafayette on Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
centrifugal





Joined: 25 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is still speaking tune into cp24.com or cpac.com
Ruth





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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't think?
I dunno.
They are at least posturing over Kyoto. They could still vote it down when the time comes.

-Ruth
pS: "Canada went from 'ero to zstero."
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBC already has a story up that says Dion is not going to do it. If the CBC doesn't know, then Dion himself does not know.
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