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mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone hear Dion at the end of his speil on Duffy say thet the Liberal would reveal their confusion(he meant to say decision) tomorrow at 3:30. Nice!

I think the carbon trading market they are talking about will be a Canada only trading market rather than an international one. That way the money stays in the Country.
Triple_R





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:
Triple_R wrote:
The only thing that makes me think a bit differently is the omnibus crime bill - if the Liberals can't swallow that then they might as well defeat the government now, as the omnibus crime bill will be the first thing introduced in Parliament if the Throne Speech passes.


I think that the Liberals are going to have many opportunities to defeat the government soon (as I think you do too?). I think that it is on one of these issues, such as the crime bill, that the Liberals will defeat the Government on, as they will want to frame the issue of that bill into the election issue.

That's what I think anyway. Either way they are between a rock and a hard place.


"Soft on crime" isn't a platform I'd want to run on, but I agree with you on many other bills (one on the environment for example could be a good issue for the Liberals to bring down the government over).

I think that it's very wise for the Prime Minister to make the crime omnibus bill the first confidance motion in Parliament after the Throne Speech (if it passes) since it's a tough pill for the more bleeding-heart elements of the LPC to swallow, but "the Liberals defeated us because they're soft on crime" is a line I'd love to go to the electorate over if I was a Conservative trying to get elected.
Cool Blue





Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I the only one who was disappointed with the throne speech?

To me, it seemed like they only re-announced things that have already been discussed.

When are we going to get serious tax cuts?!
luca





Joined: 05 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the omnibus crime bill, the mention of youth offenders, the (useless) veiled voter issue, Afghanistan and the security certificates issue are a bit too much for the Liberals to swallow all at once. Kyoto is the last of their problems.

I think the veil and the security certificates are a poison pill. They weren't necessary, no-one asked to bring them back into the game and they're not going to earn the tories much popularity.

I admire all the other contents of the speech, and I genuinely hope it passes. However I really think you guys will be heading to the polls. The biggest question there will be: how much will this throne speech have scared the middle ground?

I'm going back home where I haven't got the internet, but I'll be back tomorrow morning. Looking forward to Dion's speech tomorrow, I am sure this night will be sleepless for him. Since the Conservatives have maintained their ideological and political integrity, the Liberals should be tempted to do the same.
Triple_R





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luca wrote:
I think the omnibus crime bill, the mention of youth offenders, the (useless) veiled voter issue, Afghanistan and the security certificates issue are a bit too much for the Liberals to swallow all at once. Kyoto is the last of their problems.

I think the veil and the security certificates are a poison pill. They weren't necessary, no-one asked to bring them back into the game and they're not going to earn the tories much popularity.

I admire all the other contents of the speech, and I genuinely hope it passes. However I really think you guys will be heading to the polls. The biggest question there will be: how much will this throne speech have scared the middle ground?

I'm going back home where I haven't got the internet, but I'll be back tomorrow morning. Looking forward to Dion's speech tomorrow, I am sure this night will be sleepless for him. Since the Conservatives have maintained their ideological and political integrity, the Liberals should be tempted to do the same.


Against the backdrop of the more prominent issues discussed, I don't see the veiled voter, or security certificates, issues having much impact on the Canadian electorate, if any at all.

If those are actually the issues that make or break it for the Liberals, their priorities are even more messed up than I already think that they are.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool wrote:
Quote:
Am I the only one who was disappointed with the throne speech?

To me, it seemed like they only re-announced things that have already been discussed.

When are we going to get serious tax cuts?!


I was a little disappointed, but the speech does say that there will be a fiscal update in the fall where we will learn of the extra tax cuts. The Liberals will have a hard choice to make. If they wait until after the fiscal update to call an election they will have to fight an election on tax cuts that are on the book. if they go now they will fight on promised tax cuts. Not a big difference but this document was vague for a reason I think. If the CPC really has a chance to announce broad based cuts then the Liberals are dead in the water. Dion will give his confusion in at 3:30 tomorrow(he really said that)
Riley W





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A throne speech isn't supposed to be nitty gritty specifics.

A throne speech is about the broad plan for the government.

I am sure in an election campaign the specifics of tax cuts would be released.

And maybe Harper is thinking along Duceppe's lines for carbon credits.

Between provinces - not nations.
luca





Joined: 05 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they're there to be the two straws that break the camel's back. The Libs get a battering on some of their top priorities and then they get these two issues which the Tories mentioned before (and Harper got a rap for criticizing the supreme court on the veiled women issue if I remember correctly). Those two could have made it into the House later, putting them onto the chessboard of the Throne speech means they have a very specific purpose. Imho they're just a statement "we know where we stand, now it's your turn to give in".

As far as the voters are concerned, I hope you are right, this eventual election is too hot already and we can't drag faith related issues into it, especially after they didn't pay off in Ontario. Unless the Liberals try to use them against us again, and thus shoot themselves in the foot by giving the Tories free rein over the other issues which will be really popular with Canadians.

I say Harper is a mastermind and I really want to learn from him. This Throne speech is the best-played political chess game I've ever seen, and so far Harper has the lead both if the speech passes and if the election is called.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper is a genius.

I want an election to enjoy the Liberal commercials where they ask me to "Choose your Canada"

Then the dramatic music saying were going to illegalize homosexual sex by hanging, illegalize abortion by hanging, and force woman to be house wives.

Yep that isn't above the liberal mentality...

:lol:
Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A throne speech is about the broad plan for the government.


Ya but this plan looks mostly like the old plan.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG, does this bring back cringes in my spine:


Link


Do you think they would run a tie-harper-to-bush and Far Right Christian American Evangelicals campaign again?
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luca wrote:
I say Harper is a mastermind and I really want to learn from him. This Throne speech is the best-played political chess game I've ever seen, and so far Harper has the lead both if the speech passes and if the election is called.


Dion is in HUGE trouble in Quebec and Harper wouldn't mind either way. If the speech fails then he has a well organized team flush with cash to bury Dion. If the speech passes, the Liberals will bury Dion for him. It is a lose-lose situation for Dion. If the guy wasn't so arrogant I'd almost feel sorry for him.
Triple_R





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luca wrote:
I think they're there to be the two straws that break the camel's back. The Libs get a battering on some of their top priorities and then they get these two issues which the Tories mentioned before (and Harper got a rap for criticizing the supreme court on the veiled women issue if I remember correctly). Those two could have made it into the House later, putting them onto the chessboard of the Throne speech means they have a very specific purpose. Imho they're just a statement "we know where we stand, now it's your turn to give in".

As far as the voters are concerned, I hope you are right, this eventual election is too hot already and we can't drag faith related issues into it, especially after they didn't pay off in Ontario. Unless the Liberals try to use them against us again, and thus shoot themselves in the foot by giving the Tories free rein over the other issues which will be really popular with Canadians.

I say Harper is a mastermind and I really want to learn from him. This Throne speech is the best-played political chess game I've ever seen, and so far Harper has the lead both if the speech passes and if the election is called.


I think that the real sleeper issue is the more arcane one about limiting federal spending power in provincial jurisdictions. This will be very hard to make a political slogan out of (or even to comprehensively inform the entire electorate on), but the key players know exactly what it means.

Actually, more than any other issue, this decentralizing one is the one that strikes right at the heart of Dion's view of Canada having a strong Trudeau-esque centralized government, and hence personally challenges Dion I would imagine.

I could be wrong, but I think that many Quebecers will love it, and it will continue to weaken Dion in his home province.
goward4u





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am against carbon taxes/ trading whether it is domestic or not. It is stupid. It does nothing about actual pollution.

I think the Libs will keep the Tories afloat while showing contempt for their legislation, sort of what Iggy did tonight. I expect more of that but they do not have the guts to pull the plug imo.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Actually, more than any other issue, this decentralizing one is the one that strikes right at the heart of Dion's view of Canada having a strong Trudeau-esque centralized government, and hence personally challenges Dion I would imagine.


In the book Rightside Up, Dion is someone who is shown defending provincial rights and the constitutional division of powers. Not as strongly as Harper and the boys but he does support them. Not that the poor communicator will ever get that message to Quebecers or the rest of Canada.
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