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urbanmonk





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Intelligent Design: Fact or Fable? Reply with quote

Wanting to respond on the 'atheism' thread I've done so here so as not to be off topic.

Quote:
TAJ- "Again, evolution of man does not prove God doesn't exist. What it does prove is God didn't zap man on earth, actually, it doesn't even prove that. Man could have been zapped here right after our closest ancestors were about to make the leap into man as we know him today."

Again, the theory of evolution hasn't proven anything. Science continues to point to intelligent design but for obvious reasons atheists refuse to accept that possibility. The theory of evolution uses the same facts to argue it's case as proponents of intelligent design do to argue their points.

Micro evolution like Darwin observed with finches is a verifiable fact. It doesn't run contrary to intelligent design it shows the diversification within a species that enable that species to survive changing conditions. To jump from there to a theory or bare assertion that claims life created itself is absurd.
For example to state as evolution does that the miracle of flight, against impossible odds happened three separate times takes a lot of faith. Birds randomly evolved from dinosaurs gaining the necessary fundamentals required for flight while insects and bats were doing the same on a separate branch of the evolutionary tree...wow.
There are no fossil record that shows a species evolving into another species and amazingly man just showed up in the fossil records fully "evolved" within the last six thousand years or so. Evolutionists use logic and reason?!?....give me a break!Life is not evolving up it is devolving.

To your point regarding Galileo's and the RCC's belief and teaching that the sun revolved around the earth it should be noted that many were in disagreement including Luther. At any rate to use this as an example of why creationists are not reliable would be unwise considering the volumes of outdated evolution textbooks.
Quote:
Craig- "When a pandemic happens and millions die, as cruel as it sounds, we become a stronger species because the people best able to defend against the disease survived."

For that to be the case the survivors of the epidemic would have to carry all the genetic traits of the millions who died, otherwise the species has been weakened.
Quote:
Craig- "Every generation of humans, on average, is genetically better than the previous."

The long term result of the loss of genetic information is gradual extinction not improvement!
Dauphin





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever intelligent design is, it's certainly not a scientific theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The long term result of the loss of genetic information is gradual extinction not improvement!


2nd law of thermo dynamics: Left to itself everything moves from order to disorder.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Intelligent Design: Fact or Fable? Reply with quote

urbanmonk wrote:
To jump from there to a theory or bare assertion that claims life created itself is absurd.


You can discount it. But for someone who believes life was created by a "being" essentially out of dirt to call it "absurd" is a bit of a stretch.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Intelligent Design: Fact or Fable? Reply with quote

urbanmonk wrote:
The long term result of the loss of genetic information is gradual extinction not improvement!


Loss of genetic information? The net amount of genetic information doesn't change. We have "x" number of genes. We lose weak genes and gain strong ones.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
Quote:
The long term result of the loss of genetic information is gradual extinction not improvement!


2nd law of thermo dynamics: Left to itself everything moves from order to disorder.


The laws of thermodynamics apply to heat not genes.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The laws of thermodynamics apply to heat not genes.


If you saw the jeans my wife had on today would you think otherwise!

They were smokin! :lol:
don muntean





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intelligent design of course - here is a way of seeing this 'out of random chaos' myth for what it is - imagine we wanted to build a house - so we take all the materials and we place them in a lot and we place some explosive on-top - how many times would we have to detonate the pile to come up with a house? In that same way this universe is not a random conflux of matter and energy. Sometimes people deny the logic of this because if all this was created then - there is a purpose [they then need to be aware of] - if it's random - well - we get the idea...
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
so we take all the materials and we place them in a lot and we place some explosive on-top - how many times would we have to detonate the pile to come up with a house?


Enough times until the rubble piled up in such a manner that you could find shelter underneath it.
Riley W





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
Intelligent design of course - here is a way of seeing this 'out of random chaos' myth for what it is - imagine we wanted to build a house - so we take all the materials and we place them in a lot and we place some explosive on-top - how many times would we have to detonate the pile to come up with a house? In that same way this universe is not a random conflux of matter and energy. Sometimes people deny the logic of this because if all this was created then - there is a purpose [they then need to be aware of] - if it's random - well - we get the idea...


AMAZING EXAMPLE!

I hope you don't mind if I use this on another forum in an evolution-intelligent design arguement?
don muntean





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westmanguy wrote:
don muntean wrote:
Intelligent design of course - here is a way of seeing this 'out of random chaos' myth for what it is - imagine we wanted to build a house - so we take all the materials and we place them in a lot and we place some explosive on-top - how many times would we have to detonate the pile to come up with a house? In that same way this universe is not a random conflux of matter and energy. Sometimes people deny the logic of this because if all this was created then - there is a purpose [they then need to be aware of] - if it's random - well - we get the idea...


AMAZING EXAMPLE!

I hope you don't mind if I use this on another forum in an evolution-intelligent design arguement?


Certainly! :arrow:
don muntean





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
don muntean wrote:
so we take all the materials and we place them in a lot and we place some explosive on-top - how many times would we have to detonate the pile to come up with a house?


Enough times until the rubble piled up in such a manner that you could find shelter underneath it.


:lol: - much like crow-like thinkers who take shelter in a shanty of theories...
urbanmonk





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Intelligent Design: Fact or Fable? Reply with quote

Craig wrote:


You can discount it. But for someone who believes life was created by a "being" essentially out of dirt to call it "absurd" is a bit of a stretch.

Touche :~)

Quote:
Loss of genetic information? The net amount of genetic information doesn't change. We have "x" number of genes. We lose weak genes and gain strong ones.

Do the "weak" genes that "we lose" not contain information?
When we gain "strong ones" we're not gaining new information we're only becoming more specialized, weaker actually.
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

because of cultral selection every new generation is getting worse not better. The fitness of hunter gathers was much better than our current genetic fitness. People with disorders and defects died or were culled from the population. In the past someone like me would have died bc of my poor eyesite but now thanks to cultural selection I could have offspring and pass on those bad genese. This is but one example but very few people alive now woupld be genetically fitter than people 10,000 years ago. On the other side we have developed resistences to many diseases (which mostly come from domesticated animals) so it is somewhat of a grey area.

Evolution is the theory which best fits the present evidence. If the evidence changes the theory will change. People who believe in intellegent design are working backwards. They decide the answer they want then try and fit the evidence to support their answer. This isnt science its dogma.

Quote:
There are no fossil record that shows a species evolving into another species and amazingly man just showed up in the fossil records fully "evolved" within the last six thousand years or so.


really, you deny the existence of early hominids? Man just showed up 6,000 years ago eh. :roll:
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as well the idea of good or bad genes changes with culture. Genes that would be useful for a hunter gather in prehistory may not be useful to someone living in canada today. Conversly the genes that Stephen Hawking has would have been useless during 99% of human history and prehistory but are very useful today.
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