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theatheistjew





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:21 am    Post subject: Ann Coulter Wants Jews To Convert To Christianity Reply with quote

She stated on a cable show that Jews need to be perfected and that will happen by converting to Christianity.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....tpop_story

To me, I find that offensive.

To those who think it isn't offensive, let me ask:
If a Muslim cleric said that Muslims are just perfected Christians and that all Christians should become Muslim to be perfected, would you find that offensive?
Ruth





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muslims do think Christians should become Muslims in order to become perfected. Technically, they also view themselves as perfected Christians, since they view both Christianity and Judaism as less evolved form of Islam... pre-Islam if you will.
And no, this does not offend me.
I expect a practicing Muslim to think this.
I also think they are wrong.
They should become Christians.

-Ruth
theatheistjew





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ruth wrote:
Muslims do think Christians should become Muslims in order to become perfected. Technically, they also view themselves as perfected Christians, since they view both Christianity and Judaism as less evolved form of Islam... pre-Islam if you will.
And no, this does not offend me.
I expect a practicing Muslim to think this.
I also think they are wrong.
They should become Christians.

-Ruth

Jews are a bit more touchy when it comes to this thanks to things like the Spanish Inquisition.
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Ann Coulter Wants Jews To Convert To Christianity Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
If a Muslim cleric said that Muslims are just perfected Christians and that all Christians should become Muslim to be perfected, would you find that offensive?


That is what the Koran states. If a Muslim cleric didn't feel that way he wouldn't be a very good cleric.
IcemanA





Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm Christian, and I believe that Muslims have a legitimate right to feel that Christians are just "A step behind" or "not acknowledging God's latest revelation".

Christians may generally feel that Jews are missing out because they don't believe in Jesus' role as Messiah. Muslims likely feel the same way towards both of us for not heeding the words of their prophet.

I think the stir isn't over that....I honestly can't see how you'd be offended by such simple truths....it's like saying you are offended that I am Christian.

I think the real problem people have are with a mis-worded sentence including the word "perfected". Take out that word, which is not meant the way many seem to think, and there should be little to find offensive. Obviously if I was told that Muslims think they are perfect beings/people/religious adhereants/whatever than Christians, then I might take offense, but the meaning in her context was more like "COMPLETED".

Christians might believe that they are taking part in a more complete revelation of who God is and how we might be in his good graces, as it were. The more complete revelation being the belief in Jesus (or, for Muslims, the truths of Mohammed (sp?)).

Now tell me, those of you who ARE offended, if the word she misused were corrected to "completed", and if the context is understood as I've tried to describe....is it still offensive?
don muntean





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Ann Coulter Wants Jews To Convert To Christianity Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
She stated on a cable show that Jews need to be perfected and that will happen by converting to Christianity.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....tpop_story

To me, I find that offensive.

To those who think it isn't offensive, let me ask:
If a Muslim cleric said that Muslims are just perfected Christians and that all Christians should become Muslim to be perfected, would you find that offensive?


Actually it's the other way around - it's Christians who should convert - to Judaism...
don muntean





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IcemanA wrote:
I'm Christian, and I believe that Muslims have a legitimate right to feel that Christians are just "A step behind" or "not acknowledging God's latest revelation".

Christians may generally feel that Jews are missing out because they don't believe in Jesus' role as Messiah. Muslims likely feel the same way towards both of us for not heeding the words of their prophet.

I think the stir isn't over that....I honestly can't see how you'd be offended by such simple truths....it's like saying you are offended that I am Christian.

I think the real problem people have are with a mis-worded sentence including the word "perfected". Take out that word, which is not meant the way many seem to think, and there should be little to find offensive. Obviously if I was told that Muslims think they are perfect beings/people/religious adhereants/whatever than Christians, then I might take offense, but the meaning in her context was more like "COMPLETED".

Christians might believe that they are taking part in a more complete revelation of who God is and how we might be in his good graces, as it were. The more complete revelation being the belief in Jesus (or, for Muslims, the truths of Mohammed (sp?)).

Now tell me, those of you who ARE offended, if the word she misused were corrected to "completed", and if the context is understood as I've tried to describe....is it still offensive?


Why do Jews reject Jesus as the Hebrew messiah? Most people don't understand scriptures well enough to understand the reasons...others won't try to understand for various reasons.
Dauphin





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Ann Coulter Wants Jews To Convert To Christianity Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:
She stated on a cable show that Jews need to be perfected and that will happen by converting to Christianity.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....tpop_story

To me, I find that offensive.

To those who think it isn't offensive, let me ask:
If a Muslim cleric said that Muslims are just perfected Christians and that all Christians should become Muslim to be perfected, would you find that offensive?


Actually it's the other way around - it's Christians who should convert - to Judaism...


UhHuh. It just doesn't seem like a credible mission to convert the world to Judaism. Good luck to them getting all the males in the world circumcized.

The reality is that the Jewish law was meant for Jews. The eternal word and the living law - Christ - is meant for the world. Judaism simply doesn't have a credible claim to universality.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Ann Coulter Wants Jews To Convert To Christianity Reply with quote

Dauphin wrote:
don muntean wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:
She stated on a cable show that Jews need to be perfected and that will happen by converting to Christianity.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....tpop_story

To me, I find that offensive.

To those who think it isn't offensive, let me ask:
If a Muslim cleric said that Muslims are just perfected Christians and that all Christians should become Muslim to be perfected, would you find that offensive?


Actually it's the other way around - it's Christians who should convert - to Judaism...


UhHuh. It just doesn't seem like a credible mission to convert the world to Judaism. Good luck to them getting all the males in the world circumcized.

The reality is that the Jewish law was meant for Jews. The eternal word and the living law - Christ - is meant for the world. Judaism simply doesn't have a credible claim to universality.


Quote:

the Jewish law was meant for Jews

Reply:

The teacher Rabbi Jesus said:

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. [John 15.10]

Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. [John 15.15]

Jesus never says that we can reject the laws of God.


Last edited by don muntean on Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
gc





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Ann Coulter Wants Jews To Convert To Christianity Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
That is what the Koran states. If a Muslim cleric didn't feel that way he wouldn't be a very good cleric.


If a Christian (or Jew) doesn't believe everything that the bible says, does that make them a bad Christian (or Jew)?
don muntean





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Ann Coulter Wants Jews To Convert To Christianity Reply with quote

Dauphin wrote:
Judaism simply doesn't have a credible claim to universality.


In speaking of the coming messianic age the teachings of Judaism state a clear and broad universalism:

And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.


For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. [Micah 4.3-5]

Pretty clear isn't it....
luca





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, but one who is charged with practizing the religion and be the one to go to in case of doubts regarding the dogma should be a strict, albeit scholarly, adherent to the tenets of the religion. It is as if you expected a priest to acknowledge that God might not exist.

It really bothers me, though, when someone claims earlier prophets didn't get it right or that previous holy books have been falsified. As far as I know the Koran states that the Bible and Gospels are false, which I believe are not. As much as interpretation is opinable, one shouldn't try to bring down what others believe in. If we assume all Prophets spoke from an only God, then all the great monotheistic religions would just be Monotheism v.1, Monotheism v.2 and so on. Just like Windows changes versions but doesn't really change the key characteristic of the operating system. I only wonder when's the next update patch from above is due.

Since every religion claims to be the right one, I say we agree that we are all wrong somewhere, and all be equally unhappy with the outcome of the discussion :)
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Ann Coulter Wants Jews To Convert To Christianity Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Craig wrote:
That is what the Koran states. If a Muslim cleric didn't feel that way he wouldn't be a very good cleric.


If a Christian (or Jew) doesn't believe everything that the bible says, does that make them a bad Christian (or Jew)?


If a person? I thought we were talking about clerics. Interesting how you chose to generalize in order to change the argument.

The concept is often repeated in the Koran which is a short book by religious standards. To ignore a fundamental position of the Koran makes the persona bad CLERIC.
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luca wrote:
then all the great monotheistic religions would just be Monotheism v.1, Monotheism v.2 and so on. Just like Windows changes versions but doesn't really change the key characteristic of the operating system.


I hope I don't get the blue screen of death.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously, you just called the woman a moron in another thread. Why is what a moron says so important to your sense well being? You have to right to not be offended.
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