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Is Liberalism a religion?
Yes
46%
 46%  [ 7 ]
No
53%
 53%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 15

Author Message
Riley W





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:12 pm    Post subject: Godless: The Church of Liberalism Reply with quote

I just got Godless: The Church of Liberalism, by Ann Coulter, in from the library today (surprised that it hasn't been deemed hate speech by the Canada Liberal bureaucracy).

Just when I thought I couldn't stand Liberalism more, bam....

The first chapter outlines how Liberalism is a religion.

I truly believe now that any real Liberals that claim to be Christian are liars.

Quote:
The book is an argument against American liberalism, which Coulter regards as so anti-scientific and taking so many things on faith that it amounts to a "primitive religion" which has "its own cosmology, its own explanation for why we are here, its own gods, its own clergy. The basic tenet of liberalism is that nature is god and men are monkeys."

Coulter argues that liberalism rejects the idea of God and reviles people of faith, yet bears all the attributes of a religion itself.[2] Coulter argues that the tenets of the liberal "church" are:

* Creation mythology (theory of evolution)
* Sacraments - Coulter compares abortion to "virgin sacrifice"[3]
* Holy Writ (Roe v. Wade)
* Martyrs (from Alger Hiss to Mumia Abu Jamal)
* Clergy (public school teachers)
* Churches (government schools, where prayer is prohibited but condoms are free)
* Doctrine of infallibility (as manifest in the "absolute moral authority" of spokespeople from Cindy Sheehan to Max Cleland)
* Cosmology (Big Bang, in which mankind is an inconsequential accident)



From Wiki

What stands out to me most of all about what Liberals are, and it Biblical, God warns us of them:

"They exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creation rather than the creator.... Therefore, God gave them up to passions of dishonor, for their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature. Romans 1:25-26"


Wow, eh?

In my poll consider the fact that a religion does not require a God (eg. Buddhists)
Mac





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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coulter is a pretty decent writer, isn't she? Hard to imagine why the Democrats demonize her. :roll:

The "real" Liberals, as described by Coulter, have embraced the religion of Liberalism. They manage to candy-coat their beliefs enough to sway a vast number of voters. Those "followers" aren't necessarily adherents to the religion of Liberalism... but their leaders are!

-Mac
theatheistjew





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ann Coulter is a moron. First off, the Big Bang and evolution are fact. Anyone denying these two realities is wilfully ignorant and most don't want to know the truth. Abortion is a debatable issue, and I know many atheists/agnostics who are against abortion. First off, what is a Liberal? As I've stated, I'm a social liberal but I'm strong against terror and crime, and I want as little government intervention as possible with the exception of controlling education, defense, and medical care. I do realize that people can't be trusted to just do their own thing when it comes to handling their own healthcare and we need standards for education and unfortunately, we need to be protected.

Baseball is religion depending on the definition you use, but to me, religion means the worship of at least one God and faith is required to be religion as one needs faith to believe in a God. The Liberalism Coulter describes requires no faith.

Oh, and faith is something that you can't disprove scientifically, nor can you prove it.
Ruth





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
Ann Coulter is a moron.


Hah hah
For once, we come quite close to agreeing.
I am not sure I'd say she is a moron. But, I would say that she is her own biggest fan as well as her own worst enemy. Occasionally she will say something brilliant, but usually it's because it accidentally fell out of her mouth. Mostly, she just goes for the shock factor.

--Ruth
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are lots of religions today that the practitioners will deny to their last breath is a religion. Environmentology, Atheism (we have at least one example of of a religious Atheist here), Liberalism, Politics in general. A lot of partisans on both sides treat their party as the church.

Off the topic, but why are the majority of a so called atheist's posts all about religion? "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
theatheistjew





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
There are lots of religions today that the practitioners will deny to their last breath is a religion. Environmentology, Atheism (we have at least one example of of a religious Atheist here), Liberalism, Politics in general. A lot of partisans on both sides treat their party as the church.

Off the topic, but why are the majority of a so called atheist's posts all about religion? "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

I post about religion because there are many young people here and I know that I might get them to think and realize they have been brainwashed. Of course, I'm not talking about changing you, but I know for a fact that my blog and my videos have influenced many a young person to think and ask questions.

Now I'll ask you. Define religion. If I'm a religious atheist, what is my dogma? What are my beliefs? Are they consistent with all other atheists? You didn't answer earlier, yet you are still continuing with your rhetoric. My wife just said to me. Not again. This time she knows you won't answer the questions.

"Atheism is as much a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby."
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
There are lots of religions today that the practitioners will deny to their last breath is a religion. Environmentology, Atheism (we have at least one example of of a religious Atheist here), Liberalism, Politics in general. A lot of partisans on both sides treat their party as the church.

Off the topic, but why are the majority of a so called atheist's posts all about religion? "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."


Global Warming is a religion with Al Gore as its Pope.
theatheistjew





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
kwlafayette wrote:
There are lots of religions today that the practitioners will deny to their last breath is a religion. Environmentology, Atheism (we have at least one example of of a religious Atheist here), Liberalism, Politics in general. A lot of partisans on both sides treat their party as the church.

Off the topic, but why are the majority of a so called atheist's posts all about religion? "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."


Global Warming is a religion with Al Gore as its Pope.

If atheism is a religion and global warming is a religion. What isn't a religion?
If we want to change the definition of the word religion just so we can make rhetorical insults, so be it.
Atheism isn't even a world view, it is simply a disbelief in God. And many atheists have different world views, and give their lives different purposes.
My favorite purpose is to inform the youngins that they've been brainwashed.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
kwlafayette wrote:
There are lots of religions today that the practitioners will deny to their last breath is a religion. Environmentology, Atheism (we have at least one example of of a religious Atheist here), Liberalism, Politics in general. A lot of partisans on both sides treat their party as the church.

Off the topic, but why are the majority of a so called atheist's posts all about religion? "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."


Global Warming is a religion with Al Gore as its Pope.

If atheism is a religion and global warming is a religion. What isn't a religion?
If we want to change the definition of the word religion just so we can make rhetorical insults, so be it.
Atheism isn't even a world view, it is simply a disbelief in God. And many atheists have different world views, and give their lives different purposes.
My favorite purpose is to inform the youngins that they've been brainwashed.


I am not sure if I consider Atheism to be a religion,
Although some Atheists can display religious qualities.

Personally I cannot paint "All" Athists or "All" Global Warming supporters are showing qualities similar to Organized Religion, but some clearly do.

It really depends how different you consider ideology from Religion,

Count Antoine Destutt calls Ideology a "science of ideas" whereas many could consider Religion to be a "Science of beliefs"

The main purpose behind an ideology is to offer change in society through a normative thought process. Whereas again you could argue that Religion is the same but through a belief process that originally was a thought process?

Then it becomes an issue of who I consider to be more of a Zealot?

Jehovah Witnesses who knock on my door on a Saturday afternoon trying to swat my faith/lack of faith/ideological and moral viewpoints

or

A Pro Kyoto Activist that dumps green paint off the top of a building onto the cars below as a way to bring awareness to CO2 emissions.

Buddhism and other such faiths show that Religion does not need to have a centralized "God" or "Gods" to make it a Religion simply a collection of Dogma or Dogmata centralized as the established belief or doctrine.

But again the we are basically arguing the "Definition" of the word Religion.

One of my close friends is a self described "Agnostic" and unless you asked him you would never know, he feels that if there is something greater we as a people are nowhere near smart enough to understand it and if not he had a good run.

But then I have another friend who is an atheists who has simply legendary arguments with another one of my friends who is a Deacon in the Catholic Church,

Every time I am in his presence its an attempt at conversion with anyone around him who even loosely believes in a God or Gods or even the ideals behind a faith with a Dogma or Dogmata,

Quoting science and books he had just finished reading in an attempt to shake loose the concepts and beliefs some people have.

In this case I fail to see any difference between the Missionary trying to convert Africans to Christianity and the atheist trying to make Religious folk see the "error of their ways"

If a person has a strong enough belief in anything, even if its nothing and they have a very strong and firm belief in their ideals that they need to "preach" then I cannot draw a line between Christianity and Atheism.

But again, its on a person to person basis painting in broad strokes is almost always incorrect.


Last edited by cosmostein on Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Ruth





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might I suggest a thread entitled "Atheism: Religion or Not" for this discussion?

-Ruth
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right, not all atheists are Atheists. It is pretty easy to pick the Atheists out of the crowd though, as you illustrate with the example of your friend.

I know Santa does not exist, but I am not about to spend 15 weeks in an online forum trying, every single day, to convince everyone else that he does not exist. I know that gravity accelerates mass towards the center of our earth at a given rate; I am not going to try to convince someone who is mistaken of the error of their ways. Same goes for the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Some things people just have to discover for themselves; God is one of those things.
theatheistjew





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
You are right, not all atheists are Atheists. It is pretty easy to pick the Atheists out of the crowd though, as you illustrate with the example of your friend.

I know Santa does not exist, but I am not about to spend 15 weeks in an online forum trying, every single day, to convince everyone else that he does not exist. I know that gravity accelerates mass towards the center of our earth at a given rate; I am not going to try to convince someone who is mistaken of the error of their ways. Same goes for the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Some things people just have to discover for themselves; God is one of those things.

If 90% of the public thought Santa existed and based it only on faith, then you might spend time educating others that they were brainwashed.
As long as there isn't full separation of church and state, and as long as ignorance abounds as far as evolution and the age of the earth is concerned, I feel the need to educate others.
I'm educating other on facts. And I've already admitted I can't disprove God or the tooth fairy.
Sure, I'm a militant atheist, but atheism is not a religion.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
kwlafayette wrote:
You are right, not all atheists are Atheists. It is pretty easy to pick the Atheists out of the crowd though, as you illustrate with the example of your friend.

I know Santa does not exist, but I am not about to spend 15 weeks in an online forum trying, every single day, to convince everyone else that he does not exist. I know that gravity accelerates mass towards the center of our earth at a given rate; I am not going to try to convince someone who is mistaken of the error of their ways. Same goes for the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Some things people just have to discover for themselves; God is one of those things.

If 90% of the public thought Santa existed and based it only on faith, then you might spend time educating others that they were brainwashed.
As long as there isn't full separation of church and state, and as long as ignorance abounds as far as evolution and the age of the earth is concerned, I feel the need to educate others.
I'm educating other on facts. And I've already admitted I can't disprove God or the tooth fairy.
Sure, I'm a militant atheist, but atheism is not a religion.


Without getting into the middle of a discussion between two folks,

Have you been to a Christian School in the last 20 or so years AJ?

I don't mean that as a potshot, but I can assure you that if any reasonable Christian based school was still teaching that the Earth was 10,000 years old and disregarding the theory of evolution then I would be right there beside you protesting,

But from my experience learning about Ontario's Catholic Schools and even Ontario's Private Christian Schools in the last few years I think those sorts of institues you are describing are few and far in between.
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the def problem you guys are having is clear

you could argue this stuff a religion if you wanted, changes the meaning of the word certainly
but its not really an
Quote:
organized
religion
ie im against global warming and i believe it to be occuring but i disagree with al gores proposed
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, I thought I was in the Godless: The Church of Liberalism thread, not the Atheism: Religion of Not thread.
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Godless: The Church of Liberalism

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