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Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
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Location: Manitoba

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Does Atheism Kill? Reply with quote

I am underlining militant, not all atheists ( I know ) are like this, but you think no religion would make the world a better place?

I fear that never happens.

Look at communism and the atheist theme in the Communist movement and what it did...


Link


Some 110 million dead, Christian prosecuted. Churches destroyed. Priests killed.

Look at what Soviet Russia did to the Christian Orthodox people...


Link


Quote:
The Orthodox Christian Church of Russia was the primary target of the Soviet government (whose leaders during Lenin's days were in their majority Jews who suffered under the Tsarist regime). Early legislation banned all influences of the church on education and public life. During the Civil War hundreds of thousands of clergymen were murdered. Despite repeated attempts by church leaders to prove their loyalty to the state, churches were closed in the thousands, their assets were seized, and clergy and the faithful were violently persecuted. By 1933, only a hundred churches in Moscow were operational (compared to 600 in 1917), and by 1939 around 98% of all churches in Russia were confescated, destroyed or closed. Following the 1941 invasion of the Soviet Union by Germany, and Hitler's attempt to win over Christians in Ukraine and Russia, Stalin relaxed active persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church until the end of World War II. Active persecution continued under Khrushchev and until the fall of Communism in the 1990s. It is estimated that 40 million Orthodox Christians perished under Lenin and Stalin. May their memory be eternal.



Quote:
Imagine: No Religion...
but if Communism has taught the world anything, it is that Atheism is a fanatical religion which lead to deaths of 85-110 Million in one century alone.

"Imagine no religion"

didn't make the world any better: 85-110 MILLION DEAD.

ATHEIST "UTOPIA" - LENNON'S ATHEIST FANTASY LIE

imagine there's starvation.
isn't hard to do,
atheism runs the government,
and Gulags too-ooo!

Imagine all the people,
HAPPY Lenin's dead,
You may say I'm conservative,
but I'm not the only one.

wanna government cater to perverts?
"rights" for beastiality? free abortion? legalize rape of 2 year old?
go kill yerself..
and the world can have some peace for once!

"To collectivize the land in a "great assault on the peasantry," Stalin used starvation as a weapon, particularly the Ukrainians. This policy resulted in the death of roughly 6 million people, including 4 million in the Ukraine. Here in Kharkiv in 1933, the peasants became indifferent to the daily phenomenon of death. Cannibalism so widespread that the government printed posters that said:
"EATING YOUR CHILDREN is an act of barbarism."

Black Book of Communism
Crime, Terror, Repression
Courtois

--

The most oppressive and human-killing regime's have been those of the Communists, founded on Karl Marx's Atheist "political doctrines".

In the past century, it is estimated that Communism is responsible for the deaths of between
85,000,000 - 110,000,000

Yet, as had happened in 1932-1933, with Stalin's Holocaust against 7,000,000 in the Ukraine, the West passively denied the famine with the League of Nations accepting the USSR, and sweeping trade deals with the United States under Roosevelt.

Never a firm rebuke from its media... casual indifference from government which have always demonstrated the most casual disregard to human suffering, abuse of human rights and religious persecution.

For this, the Silent Holocaust continues...


More...


Link



Link



Link



Link


I guess I want to better explain my intolerant tendencies to atheists...and I hope this explains why so many people don't trust atheists and would never vote for an atheist to office, etc.

We see what atheism has done under the Communist regime.

Religion kills people through history?

Put communist atheism to the murder test...
Dolphin





Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 31
Reputation: 61
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The horrors you speak of are the result of communism, not atheism. The only reason that communists were against religion was because they saw it as competition.
Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
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Location: Manitoba

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dolphin wrote:
The horrors you speak of are the result of communism, not atheism. The only reason that communists were against religion was because they saw it as competition.


But the deaths of countless people were at the hands of ATHEISTS!

Yes communism was prevelant, but its still to be argued atheists are responsible for more terror, death, torture, hunger, then the Catholic Church EVER was.

Personally this one gets to me the most


Link


Sort of why I have intolerance issues with atheists....
Dolphin





Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 31
Reputation: 61
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said that Atheism prevents people from doing evil. I am a die-hard capitalist conservative, they wouldn't care less that I was an atheist, they would just string me up with the rest. An enviromental terrorist who happens to be protestant is not a protestant terrorist, because that is not his motivation, he is an enviromental terrorist.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
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votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a bunch of crap. Poll most atheists today, and find out how many are communist. I'm pretty much a militant atheist, but I'm fiscally conservative.
Cherry picking Stalin, who probably got his warped ideas by growing up a Christian and going to schools that preached the Word is like claiming Nazi Germany happened because of Christianity.

I am in contact with an Ontarian who was in the Hitler Youth and is now an atheist/agnostic. I don't agree with his stance against Israel, but he actually lived through Nazi Germany. Here is what he said to me in a recent email:

.....I also agree that the
Nazis indoctrinated children not only to be anti-Jewish but also to be
Christian followers of the Nazi party. I was one of them and contrary to
many Germans my age, I admit to favoritism for the Nationalist Socialist
Ideology at the time. We were brainwashed, just like to many young Moslems
now, Orthodox/fundamentalist Christians and Jews. It is the youth that is
always brainwashed and does not know any better.

As I've linked here before, nations like Sweden, Denmark and Norway are pretty much majority non believers today.
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

Yes, Communism is bad, but has nothing to do with militant atheism which just means that one is outspoken when it comes to issues of separation of church and state.

How many atheists are there in Iraq, Saudi Arabia,and the West Bank?
Dolphin





Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 31
Reputation: 61
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
What a bunch of crap. Poll most atheists today, and find out how many are communist. I'm pretty much a militant atheist, but I'm fiscally conservative.
Cherry picking Stalin, who probably got his warped ideas by growing up a Christian and going to schools that preached the Word is like claiming Nazi Germany happened because of Christianity.



I don't know if you can blame Stalin on christianity, his faith was communism when he was in power. I agree that atheism has nothing to do with it.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is to laugh. One of the first thing militant Atheists like to point to is how religion has killed so many people. Then, in the same breath it seems, they deny that the same yardstick can be applied to them. Well it can, and you measure up quite well in the infamy department.

Pol Pot is one of you. Stalin is one of you. Deal with it. Atheism, as a belief system, has been used to justify its share of death, and no amount of equivocation, prevarication, or denial will change that.
Dolphin





Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 31
Reputation: 61
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
It is to laugh. One of the first thing militant Atheists like to point to is how religion has killed so many people. Then, in the same breath it seems, they deny that the same yardstick can be applied to them. Well it can, and you measure up quite well in the infamy department.

Pol Pot is one of you. Stalin is one of you. Deal with it. Atheism, as a belief system, has been used to justify its share of death, and no amount of equivocation, prevarication, or denial will change that.




Atheism had nothing to do with those horrors- the belief system of communism did. I would have been killed by these people a surely as any religious person, because I am anti-communist.

Let me explain it simply- Is an enviromental terrorist who happens to be christian a christian terrorist or an enviromental terrorist who happens to be christian?
Jason Kauppinen





Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would be a textbook example of combining both the"hasty generalisation fallacy" and the "post hoc" fallacy. It is one that, regrettably, I've seen bigoted christians use on a regular basis on the web.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god. It is a metaphysical position. That's it.

It has nothing to say about epistemology--how knowledge is acquired.

It has nothing to say about ethics--it does not provide a guide to any decision making.

It has nothing to say about politics, and has nothing to say about economics.

But if you want to take westmanguy's line of reasoning as valid, then the following argument is also valid:

First using the hasty generalization fallacy in the same way that westmanguy does:

Christian priests have sexually abused children,

therefore christians (you could put in the "qualifier" "militant") are more likely to sexually abuse children.

Then using the post hoc fallacy in the same way that westmanguy does:

Christian priests have sexually abused children,

therefore belief in Christianity causes people to sexually abuse children.

I would hope that reasonable people here would reject lines of reasoning based on these two logical fallacies regardless of the argument being presented.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
It is to laugh. One of the first thing militant Atheists like to point to is how religion has killed so many people. Then, in the same breath it seems, they deny that the same yardstick can be applied to them. Well it can, and you measure up quite well in the infamy department.

Pol Pot is one of you. Stalin is one of you. Deal with it. Atheism, as a belief system, has been used to justify its share of death, and no amount of equivocation, prevarication, or denial will change that.

Hitler and Bin Laden is one of you. Deal with it.

See how utterly stupid that sounds. Deal with it.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
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votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atheism is a belief system?

Ok, what are the components of the belief system of atheism. Lets hear it. Remember, whatever you answer must be true of all atheists.
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 Jason Kauppinen
Matt





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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason Kauppinen wrote:

Christian priests have sexually abused children,

therefore belief in Christianity causes people to sexually abuse children.

I would hope that reasonable people here would reject lines of reasoning based on these two logical fallacies regardless of the argument being presented.


One familiar atheist made this argument on my blog. his assertion was that the Catholic church is rampant with sexual abuse of children at a much higher rate than any other institution in Western society (factually incorrect) and while he didn't specify Christianity as the cause it was well implied that's what he was getting at.

Frankly I'm not a fan of militant anything. Militant feminists, atheists, natives....all are from an extreme fringe of a larger macrocosm who are otherwise largely very decent, intelligent, mannered, and reasoned people.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt wrote:
Jason Kauppinen wrote:

Christian priests have sexually abused children,

therefore belief in Christianity causes people to sexually abuse children.

I would hope that reasonable people here would reject lines of reasoning based on these two logical fallacies regardless of the argument being presented.


One familiar atheist made this argument on my blog. his assertion was that the Catholic church is rampant with sexual abuse of children at a much higher rate than any other institution in Western society (factually incorrect) and while he didn't specify Christianity as the cause it was well implied that's what he was getting at.

Frankly I'm not a fan of militant anything. Militant feminists, atheists, natives....all are from an extreme fringe of a larger macrocosm who are otherwise largely very decent, intelligent, mannered, and reasoned people.


I think you are referring to me:)
First off, I don't know that it is factually incorrect that Catholic Priests are not over represented when it comes to child abuse amongst all possible occupations. I highly doubt they aren't.

And my theory is that Catholics who have the urge to have sex with young boys have a larger tendency to become celibate and devote themselves to God thinking that this will take the urge away. Yes, I think it is a combination of guilt and belief in God that is responsible for the high number of priests who molest children.

Again, this is my theory. And I could be wrong.

Oh, and are those posters who say that atheism causes death MILITANT Christians?

OT

I went to church last night and wrote about it:

http://baconeatingatheistjew.b.....hurch.html
Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point I am trying to get across BEAJ, is atheists need to realize that Christians and our religion shouldn't be blamed for the actions of a select few (who I would argue wouldn't be Christians in the first place for their actions and using God to somehow justify the atrocities).

And if you want to play that game, we can throw Stalin, and other atheists and blame all of atheism for it.

Either atheists admit Christianity and its follower can't be condemned for the actions of the select few, or I will condemn all atheists for their Stalin, etc.
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