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Craig
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Tory, NDP two-pronged attack will kill the Bloc? Reply with quote

The Bloc was a socialist party that attracted many nationalist conservatives. With Quebec nationalism dying many of those conservatives are returning to their home in the CPC. It appears as though the truly socialist component of the Bloc are moving to the NDP. Will the new found strength of the NDP and CPC in Quebec effectively kill the Bloc forever?
Riley W





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Tory, NDP two-pronged attack will kill the Bloc? Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
The Bloc was a socialist party that attracted many nationalist conservatives. With Quebec nationalism dying many of those conservatives are returning to their home in the CPC. It appears as though the truly socialist component of the Bloc are moving to the NDP. Will the new found strength of the NDP and CPC in Quebec effectively kill the Bloc forever?


AND effectively kill the Liberals as the federalist option in Quebec?
TealTories





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outside of a couple of seats in Montreal I am not sure how far the NDP will go.
The Parti Conservateur will go far. Quebeckers are realizing that the only alternative in Quebec for federalists is the CPC.
They will be picking up alot of the protest BQ vote, on the idea of Autonomy. This will also bode well in the west .
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember, this was only a by-election. Not sure how much you can say about the future prospects of the NDP in Quebec based on one by-election where they may have been a lot of strategic voting. Consider that the NDP previously won a by-election in Quebec; until now, that was a one off. Also, look at their share of the popular vote across all three ridings, and it is not as rosy a picture for the NDP as it might seem at first blush.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go back to the numbers. Judging by the total votes cast in 3 Quebec ridings, with voter turnout being nothing spectacular:

The CPC MAY have moved up to first place from third.
The Bloc MAY have moved down to second place from first.
The NDP MAY have moved up to third place from fourth place.
The Liberals MAY have moved down to fourth place from second.
The Greens are unchanged, in fifth (take that John Shavluk!).

And these numbers would only apply to Quebec, in any case.

Good news for sure, but take it with a grain of salt. It was a small pop quiz on an important subject that we aced, a quiz that will not count towards the final mark. The final is still worth 100%.

Predictions of the death of any political movement are tad premature. Wait for a 2 seat showing in a general election.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Bloc was a socialist party that attracted many nationalist conservatives. With Quebec nationalism dying many of those conservatives are returning to their home in the CPC. It appears as though the truly socialist component of the Bloc are moving to the NDP. Will the new found strength of the NDP and CPC in Quebec effectively kill the Bloc forever?


Quebec does not really break down in the political spectrum like the rest of Canada. You should read Chantal Herbert's book French Kiss for a good analysis. It really breaksdown Federalists, Nationalists, Seperatists. That's why the NDP has never fit in with their leftwing crap.

You have the Bloc seeming to be leftwing because they feel(and many Quebecers have felt) that government intervention in their lives makes Quebec stronger.

The tide is turning with the ADQ and the Conservatives saying Quebec can be strong by competing in the open market with fewer government strings blocking investment and fewer governemnt programs bleeding the Life(money) out of the province.
TorontoCon





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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to be the devils advocate here and ask this question (I'm not sure of the answer myself). Similar to the Dion question, do we WANT the Bloc to be ousted? The Bloc is THE party that has really allowed the Conservatives to govern for soo long...

The problem with the Bloc. Too many Quebec handouts (i.e. Bloc bribes) have to be given for that Bloc support of our budgets....

Without the Bloc:
1. Conservatives get a good portion of their seats: inching the Conservatives to majority territory. In this case GREAT!
2. GAIN a few seats but the Liberals and NDP also get two thirds of their seats. In this case, not so great... That's more socialist-types to vote down important legislature...in likely a minority setting.

Personally I think that the Conservatives have the most to gain from Bloc dissolution but you just never really know what might happen.
Knave





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Tory, NDP two-pronged attack will kill the Bloc? Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
The Bloc was a socialist party that attracted many nationalist conservatives.


The Bloc are a populist party; that's essentially what Preston Manning said in his book Think Big. I tend to agree; the Bloc is set up in such a way that they can adapt to the ebbs and flows of separatist sentiment in Quebec. I think that this has been shown, to name one example, by the report floated by Bloc MP Christiane Gagnon back in April that suggested that the Party adopt aspects of the "autonomy" platform of the ADQ.

I think it would be a mistake to play Taps on them, just yet.
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think that this has been shown, to name one example, by the report floated by Bloc MP Christiane Gagnon back in April that suggested that the Party adopt aspects of the "autonomy" platform of the ADQ.


I think they advocate for autonomy every chance they get and have been given a great amount of it. That's one reason why they are increasingly irrelevant.

The ADQ preach autonomy while staying in Canada by the way.
Knave





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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
I think they advocate for autonomy every chance they get and have been given a great amount of it. That's one reason why they are increasingly irrelevant.

The ADQ preach autonomy while staying in Canada by the way.


And the Bloc advocate for Quebec's sovereignty (which can include, but is not exclusive to, secession) as well as promoting the consensus of the Quebec National Assembly in Parliament. The latter is an important distinction.

I would gather that, taken together, if the National Assembly was not pushing for independence but rather for autonomy, then the Bloc could feasibly adapt to advocate for that in Parliament as well.
radicalcentrist





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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now Im leaning to be an NDP guy, for now anyway. My opinion will more than likely change a lot.
mltoryblue





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

radicalcentrist wrote:
Right now Im leaning to be an NDP guy, for now anyway. My opinion will more than likely change a lot.


Your on a conservative blog, claiming to be a centrist and leaning towards the NDP?

That is the greatest oxy moron I have ever heard of!
Stephen





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we welcome a variety of points of view here. It makes for more interesting debate.
Mac





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bloc, like all political parties with a strong leader, evolved to become a reflection of it's leader's positions.

Lucien Bouchard was a Red Tory and a Quebec nationalist. When he formed the Bloc, it was based on those principles and it was designed to be a populist movement although it was somewhat raw as a result of it's relationship with the hard-core separatists.

Michel Gauthier's tenure was so brief and weak as to prove unremarkable... to the point that most Canadians outside Quebec likely don't even recognize his name or recall that he was the Leader of the Opposition for a time. Needless to say, Gauthier didn't do much to benefit or influence the Bloc.

Gilles Duceppe doesn't so much lean to the left as he lives it. As a young man, he studied political science and, in what he describes as a search for "absolute answers", Duceppe joined the Workers Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist) for three years. During that time, Duceppe was fired from his job as a hospital orderly for "belligerent activities" whatever that means. To my knowledge, Duceppe has the distinction of being the only Leader of the Opposition who chose NOT to join the Queen's Privy Council although that distinction was offered to him.

-Mac
Lar_drewstar





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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt the Bloc will die within the next few years and personally I don't think Conservatism in Canada is at a point where we want it to happen either. As long as Conservatives hold the most seats in parliament I think the more divided our enemies are (and that means the more divided the opposition seats are) then the easier it is to govern (unless of course we have a majority which doesn't look like its quite there yet). So essentially what I'm saying is that until we get our majority I don't see the Bloc disappearing and that is perfectly alright.
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