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cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

My way is to just stick with facts and not faith in school.
Lets see, Nazi Germany was ripe for the pickin when it came to killing Jews thanks to the societies Catholic teachings that the Jews killed Jesus.


I think you are more of a fanatic then even the most extreme Bible/Torah/Quran thumper I have ever come across.

You must be Catholic. Many Catholics like to keep their head in the sand when it comes to Nazi Germany and pedophile priests, etc.

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


Wow...just Wow...

On one hand I find that comment funny because you are generally as fanatical as the faiths you are attacking, on the other I find it tragic.

If you are the product of a "secular" education I think I have to convert and then will have to send my kids are far away from the public system as I can.

45% of Canadians are Catholic, are you implying that they are all hate mongers?
And what of the 30% of other sects of Christianity that fall under the Protestant faith?

Also Monsters to the highest degree?

Its interesting that in a nation where the vast vast majority of Canadians to tie themselves to one faith or another we do not have more violence and race or religion related killing because of all the hate taught within Churches, Temples, Mosques etc. :roll:

All I am seeing is one person who has an opinion on faith who is making an attempt to force it upon the majority of Canadians using nothing but taunts and scare tactics.

As I stated before, you are more fanatical about your cause then the majority of Canadians who attend any service weekly.

You don't really need a belief in God, Allah, Yahway, Elohim, or whatever to be a Zealot persay you simply seem to need a belief and some sort of divine mentality that you are correct and everyone else is wrong and "wicked"


Last edited by cosmostein on Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7436
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votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


Can I have a tally of anyone who attended a Catholic or Christian school or anyone who has attended any sort of religious service here who has also spent time in the clink for lynching someone of another faith?

Anyone?
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


Can I have a tally of anyone who attended a Catholic or Christian school or anyone who has attended any sort of religious service here who has also spent time in the clink for lynching someone of another faith?

Anyone?

Luckily we are pretty much split when it comes to Catholics and Protestants here and we are a progressive nation, though Tory is trying to halt that right now. And I think Catholics took emphasis out of the Jews being Christ killers around 1964. But I do know that my father told me that in the 30's in Canada, Jews couldn't go to many universities, clubs, etc. There were signs on beaches in Toronto that said No Jews or dogs allowed. But hey, what do you guys care about facts anyway.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

My way is to just stick with facts and not faith in school.
Lets see, Nazi Germany was ripe for the pickin when it came to killing Jews thanks to the societies Catholic teachings that the Jews killed Jesus.


I think you are more of a fanatic then even the most extreme Bible/Torah/Quran thumper I have ever come across.

You must be Catholic. Many Catholics like to keep their head in the sand when it comes to Nazi Germany and pedophile priests, etc.

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


Wow...just Wow...

On one hand I find that comment funny because you are generally as fanatical as the faiths you are attacking, on the other I find it tragic.
**************************
I find it tragic that you probably don't believe in evolution because it conflicts with a mythological book.

If you are the product of a "secular" education I think I have to convert and then will have to send my kids are far away from the public system as I can.
*******************************
No kidding. You want to brainwash your kids as much as possible. You are just using me as an excuse.

45% of Canadians are Catholic, are you implying that they are all hate mongers?
And what of the 30% of other sects of Christianity that fall under the Protestant faith?
*****************************
Again, I'm not sure what they teach kids in Catholic school these days about Jews, but I know that gays are treated as if they are deviants who won't go to heaven. In fact, any cult that teaches that other people who don't belong to that cult have no choice to be intolerant. They just don't get it. You don't get it. You are too far gone.

Also Monsters to the highest degree?

Its interesting that in a nation where the vast vast majority of Canadians to tie themselves to one faith or another we do not have more violence and race or religion related killing because of all the hate taught within Churches, Temples, Mosques etc. :roll:
***************************
If we had high poverty or a severe recession that might change. Generally though, it is secular schools that create less tension amongst different ethnicities and religions. And John Tory wants to change this. We can go back to the 30's and maybe Jews won't be allowed on certain beaches again, but I digress....that was a time when Jesus was still in the secular classrooms.

All I am seeing is one person who has an opinion on faith who is making an attempt to force it upon the majority of Canadians using nothing but taunts and scare tactics.

As I stated before, you are more fanatical about your cause then the majority of Canadians who attend any service weekly.

You don't really need a belief in God, Allah, Yahway, Elohim, or whatever to be a Zealot persay you simply seem to need a belief and some sort of divine mentality that you are correct and everyone else is wrong and "wicked"
Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 857
Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5
votes: 10
Location: Manitoba

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

My way is to just stick with facts and not faith in school.
Lets see, Nazi Germany was ripe for the pickin when it came to killing Jews thanks to the societies Catholic teachings that the Jews killed Jesus.


I think you are more of a fanatic then even the most extreme Bible/Torah/Quran thumper I have ever come across.

You must be Catholic. Many Catholics like to keep their head in the sand when it comes to Nazi Germany and pedophile priests, etc.

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


This could turn into a war of words.

Catholics are Christians.

And to me as a Protestant we are all on the same team no matter if were Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant.

We are all Christian.

The Bible preaches no hate. It tells us God loves each and everyone of us. That God sent his only begotten son to die on the cross for your an my sins.

People that preach are people.

People are capable of sin.

The religion of Christianity itself is the truth of this world and is not hateful.
Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 857
Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5
votes: 10
Location: Manitoba

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


Can I have a tally of anyone who attended a Catholic or Christian school or anyone who has attended any sort of religious service here who has also spent time in the clink for lynching someone of another faith?

Anyone?


I bet 95% of the population has attended at least 1 church service.

Church brings in more people each Sunday then people to football games and the viewers.

Church is the biggest gathering across the world each week.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5500
Reputation: 104
votes: 35
Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
But hey, what do you guys care about facts anyway.

Some of us care a great deal... which is why we're not giving you a free ride with some of your more provocative positions but feel free to play the "oh, poor jewish me!" card again. It won't work but feel free. My bacon-eating-agnostic-jewish wife thinks you're hilarious. Actually, she's a vegetarian so the bacon-eating part isn't true but she cooks it for me and the kids... does that count??

FWIW, in the Maritimes, there is only the public school systems. In the region where I was raised, I didn't realize there was such a thing as a private school, let alone a faith based school. Yup, lovely public schools, top-loaded with unionized, self-righteous, arrogant socialist teachers...

-Mac
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 7436
Reputation: 297.4
votes: 21
Location: The World

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


Can I have a tally of anyone who attended a Catholic or Christian school or anyone who has attended any sort of religious service here who has also spent time in the clink for lynching someone of another faith?

Anyone?

Luckily we are pretty much split when it comes to Catholics and Protestants here and we are a progressive nation, though Tory is trying to halt that right now. And I think Catholics took emphasis out of the Jews being Christ killers around 1964. But I do know that my father told me that in the 30's in Canada, Jews couldn't go to many universities, clubs, etc. There were signs on beaches in Toronto that said No Jews or dogs allowed. But hey, what do you guys care about facts anyway.


Find me a Religion that does not have a violent past?

Catholic's, Jew's, Christian's, Muslim's, Sikh's, I would argue that Atheism has killed its share of people throughout history.

While its unfortunate that your father suffered through that in the 30's, I don't see Canadian Catholics of today throwing rocks at Jews,

Now I am not theological scholar, but the concept that Protestants and Catholics are the same in numbers is a somewhat flawed logic, as the 45% of Canadians who are Catholics are Roman Catholics where as the Protestants are of the Anglican, United, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian etc which are all various sect's of Christianity,

The United being the biggest accounting for only 9.6% of Canadians.

Now perhaps someone more grounded in the understanding of Christianity can help me with that. Why are all the non-Catholics and non-Orthodox Christians clumped into "Protestant"

Back to your point at hand, by progressive you mean moving away from Religion?

That may be progressive by your definition but the number of Atheists, Agnostics and Nontheists may have increased they have not increased at the same level as the Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or Baptist sect.

So while people may be "switching teams" there are roughly the same number of religious folks of any faith then their were a decade ago give or take.

So unless you mean "progressive" as in moving away from Catholicisms and the United Faiths I am not quite of the understanding what you mean?

Catholics seem to make up the largest "group" within Canada, and my logic is simply that since 45% of them are all tax paying citizens I am sure the taxes that is ear marked for education far covers the cost of that education, but if there are only 15% of the country who are secular so to speak, why is the Christian majority paying to have their beliefs or lack of beliefs pushed through the education system?

As I said, my views on this topic are bunk as I just don't really care because I have no issue if someone wants to attend a Catholic School and there is a large enough Catholic tax payer base to justify it then by all means.

Ontario still has one Protestant School Board left that is funded by the province because the user base justifies its existence.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you can do more than argue that Atheism has killed.

Pol Pot
Mao
Stalin

To name some of the most famous, and blood covered, Atheists of the world. Taken together, Atheism just might have killed more people than cancer. Malaria is still the king though, scientists figure half of all people who have ever died, the death was attributable to Malaria.

Che and his ilk were probably Atheists too. Those guys are pretty blood stained as well.

PS. Aren't the Chinese Atheists still killing to this day? Falun Gong certainly claims they are.
PPS And Cuba still has more political prisoners per capita than anyone else.


Last edited by kwlafayette on Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This could turn into a war of words.

Catholics are Christians.

And to me as a Protestant we are all on the same team no matter if were Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant.

We are all Christian.

The Bible preaches no hate. It tells us God loves each and everyone of us. That God sent his only begotten son to die on the cross for your an my sins.

People that preach are people.

People are capable of sin.

The religion of Christianity itself is the truth of this world and is not hateful
*******************************
I am friends with bible thumping Baptists. They keep telling me that the Catholic religion is pure evil. And I've heard this from others.

Are you going to say that most Christians don't preach that gays are sick and immoral? Don't some churches disown gay flock members?
What did Jesus say about gays? In your own words please.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westmanguy wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


Can I have a tally of anyone who attended a Catholic or Christian school or anyone who has attended any sort of religious service here who has also spent time in the clink for lynching someone of another faith?

Anyone?


I bet 95% of the population has attended at least 1 church service.

Church brings in more people each Sunday then people to football games and the viewers.

Church is the biggest gathering across the world each week.

I'll bet it is more like 100%. I have gone to church weddings, does that count? And again, I'm sure 100% of the population has attended at least one birthday party or new years eve party too. So what?
cosmostein





Joined: 04 Oct 2006
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votes: 21
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theatheistjew wrote:

Again, I'm not sure what they teach kids in Catholic school these days about Jews, but I know that gays are treated as if they are deviants who won't go to heaven. In fact, any cult that teaches that other people who don't belong to that cult have no choice to be intolerant. They just don't get it. You don't get it. You are too far gone.


Your creditability took a HUGE hit after this comment,

So you are damning the Catholic system that you are not familiar with based on your own interpretations and bias...

But I will not rebut with name calling, or making random accusations about what you may or may not believe (The Mythical book comment was quite stellar even I got a laugh out of that) but I can assure you that I believe in Evolution LOL

But considering you have no idea if I attend Church, Temple, Mosque or otherwise and if so how often if ever you are really just coloring your argument in anyway that will further your cause.

But rather then arguing in the realm of opinion I will take this into the realm of fact,

I had to go and investigate this with friends who are teachers in the Separate board as well as parents who have children within the Separate board.

I found it interesting that in a Grade 12 English class at a Mississauga Catholic high school they had an entire unit dedicated to gay literature through-out history and the word "hellfire" was not raised once !!!!

It seems to be a fairly common theme in all high schools both Public and Separate,

And I asked a friend to crack open her son's Grade 11 Bio text book, and much to my surprise there was not a cross on the front? which of course confused me and there was an entire chapter dedicated to this Darwin guy

Also much to my surprise not a single chapter or mention in the course outline of "creationism"

As for "Jews" required a touch more digging and just for you I called a friends wife who teaches parenting and family studies at a Catholic High School in Brampton.

Grade 9 Religion seems to be solely dedicated to the Torah or "Old Testament" that covers the creation story as is laid out in Genesis as well as the sturggles of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Joseph and of course Moses and Joshua to my understanding and perhaps as someone of the Jewish faith you can enlighten me,

Is the Torah not simply the first five chapters of the Catholic (and other sects of Christianities) Old Testament?

The course Syllabus reads much like that of a history class.

So unless the Old Testament has been "edited" for Catholic consumption I think its generally the same book taught at temple?

Although for the sake of being informed I will pick up both on my way home so I can compare and contrast.

In Grade 10 there is a study of Jesus and the new Testament,

Grade 11 seems to be a "World Religions" class, from the looks of the Syllabus aside from covering Orthodox Christian faiths there seems to be very little "Catholicisms" taught in the class.

Grade 12 looks like a history of the various sects of Christianity in today's society as well as a covering of the Roman Catholic Faith,

But what surprised me was for a Catholic School there seems to very little Catholic content.

Perhaps your understanding of the Catholic system is perhaps dated?


Last edited by cosmostein on Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:
But hey, what do you guys care about facts anyway.

Some of us care a great deal... which is why we're not giving you a free ride with some of your more provocative positions but feel free to play the "oh, poor jewish me!" card again. It won't work but feel free. My bacon-eating-agnostic-jewish wife thinks you're hilarious. Actually, she's a vegetarian so the bacon-eating part isn't true but she cooks it for me and the kids... does that count??

FWIW, in the Maritimes, there is only the public school systems. In the region where I was raised, I didn't realize there was such a thing as a private school, let alone a faith based school. Yup, lovely public schools, top-loaded with unionized, self-righteous, arrogant socialist teachers...

-Mac

I'm not using the oh poor Jewish me card. I can't say I was the victim of any anti-semitism in my life. I was born in 1961, and attended secular schools. OK, once I was in a basketball tournament...apparently it was a church sponsored league that I was in, but nobody told us. During the tournament break we were told to go into the main gymnasium, and then some preacher dude started doing a spiel about Jesus and saving myself. At the time I was a secular pretty much agnostic Jew (at 15) but I didn't even know what agnostic was back then. Anyway, I left the spiel (there were 300+ kids there) with a Christian friend who came along to watch me play. Some tight ass came out in the lobby and asked me my name and what team I played for. The next thing I knew, I was kicked out of the tournament. True story.

Talk about self righteous freaks.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:
cosmostein wrote:
theatheistjew wrote:

Religious people don't realize how much hate they actually teach. Again, it is wilfull ignorance on their part.


Can I have a tally of anyone who attended a Catholic or Christian school or anyone who has attended any sort of religious service here who has also spent time in the clink for lynching someone of another faith?

Anyone?

Luckily we are pretty much split when it comes to Catholics and Protestants here and we are a progressive nation, though Tory is trying to halt that right now. And I think Catholics took emphasis out of the Jews being Christ killers around 1964. But I do know that my father told me that in the 30's in Canada, Jews couldn't go to many universities, clubs, etc. There were signs on beaches in Toronto that said No Jews or dogs allowed. But hey, what do you guys care about facts anyway.


Find me a Religion that does not have a violent past?

Catholic's, Jew's, Christian's, Muslim's, Sikh's, I would argue that Atheism has killed its share of people throughout history.

While its unfortunate that your father suffered through that in the 30's, I don't see Canadian Catholics of today throwing rocks at Jews,

Now I am not theological scholar, but the concept that Protestants and Catholics are the same in numbers is a somewhat flawed logic, as the 45% of Canadians who are Catholics are Roman Catholics where as the Protestants are of the Anglican, United, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian etc which are all various sect's of Christianity,

The United being the biggest accounting for only 9.6% of Canadians.

Now perhaps someone more grounded in the understanding of Christianity can help me with that. Why are all the non-Catholics and non-Orthodox Christians clumped into "Protestant"

Back to your point at hand, by progressive you mean moving away from Religion?

That may be progressive by your definition but the number of Atheists, Agnostics and Nontheists may have increased they have not increased at the same level as the Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or Baptist sect.

So while people may be "switching teams" there are roughly the same number of religious folks of any faith then their were a decade ago give or take.

So unless you mean "progressive" as in moving away from Catholicisms and the United Faiths I am not quite of the understanding what you mean?

Catholics seem to make up the largest "group" within Canada, and my logic is simply that since 45% of them are all tax paying citizens I am sure the taxes that is ear marked for education far covers the cost of that education, but if there are only 15% of the country who are secular so to speak, why is the Christian majority paying to have their beliefs or lack of beliefs pushed through the education system?

As I said, my views on this topic are bunk as I just don't really care because I have no issue if someone wants to attend a Catholic School and there is a large enough Catholic tax payer base to justify it then by all means.

Ontario still has one Protestant School Board left that is funded by the province because the user base justifies its existence.

By progressive I mean separation of church and state. Obviously we aren't there yet because we still fund the Catholics.
theatheistjew





Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
Reputation: 11.2
votes: 10
Location: Niagara Region, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
I think you can do more than argue that Atheism has killed.

Pol Pot
Mao
Stalin

To name some of the most famous, and blood covered, Atheists of the world. Taken together, Atheism just might have killed more people than cancer. Malaria is still the king though, scientists figure half of all people who have ever died, the death was attributable to Malaria.

Che and his ilk were probably Atheists too. Those guys are pretty blood stained as well.

Sweden and Denmark and Japan have the highest percentages of atheists/agnostics in the world today. You don't see them murdering and butchering people.

STalin had a tremendous religious upbringing btw. And most atheists I know aren't communists, though many are too left liberal for my liking.
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