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mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Libs take on Tories for inaction on economy Reply with quote

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca.....tory=64536

Quote:
The Liberals will attempt to stake out turf this fall as the defenders of manufacturing jobs in Ontario and Quebec, arguing that Stephen Harper's Conservatives are too right-wing to intervene to support the sector.


Didn't we just give massive tax breaks to business by allowing them do right off equipment faster!

Dion we want this to be an issue! This is the best strategy you've got, that the Tories aren't LEFTWING ENOUGH to intervene in the economy!

Gee all those rightwing Tories that are worried the party has shifted left can breath easier

Pathetic.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would a carbon tax do for manufacturing jobs in Ontario and Quebec, I wonder? If Ontario wants to be a center for heavy industry, then they should get good at it, not look for subsidies and tariffs to protect inefficiency. Protectionism; old maps would say something like there lies ruin, or dragons.
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not a big fan of corporate welfare. I find it repulsive that my hard earned tax money goes to General Motors and other large companies like that. GM is not doing so well because consumers do not like what they produce, end of story. I am sick of people like Buzz Hargrove telling the government to put my tax money into financing GM to keep jobs.
TorontoCon





Joined: 14 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
I am not a big fan of corporate welfare. I find it repulsive that my hard earned tax money goes to General Motors and other large companies like that. GM is not doing so well because consumers do not like what they produce, end of story. I am sick of people like Buzz Hargrove telling the government to put my tax money into financing GM to keep jobs.


Totally agree with you. I have no sympathy for GM whatsoever.

However, in our changing times and demand for improvements in how we deal with climate change, I don't think that we can expect our industries to do it ALL on their own (afterall, WE all drive cars and are part of the problem as well...).

I don't agree with corporate welfare but government initiatives to promote development, production and sales of "cleaner cars" by GM would be OK by me.

...why aren't more hybrid cars available anyway?? the demad would be there

right now it's just:
Toyota: a few
Honda: I thik just Civic?
Nissan: Altima sedan
Ford: Escape SUV and some small tin cans
Lexus: SUV

I'd like to purchase a hybrid actually but don't like my choices...
gc





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
I am not a big fan of corporate welfare. I find it repulsive that my hard earned tax money goes to General Motors and other large companies like that. GM is not doing so well because consumers do not like what they produce, end of story. I am sick of people like Buzz Hargrove telling the government to put my tax money into financing GM to keep jobs.


I agree with you. However, if I can play devil's advocate, if those corporations didn't receive money they would go out of business and thousands of people would lose their job. That means the government would have to put tax money towards welfare for those people, which would probably be more expensive. At least if they keep their job some of their paycheck is coming from GM, whereas if they are on welfare their entire paycheck is paid for by the government.
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fine, and I understand your position on playing Devil's advocate, however GM's problems are GM's and must be dealt with by the corporate offices of GM. However, these people who work for GM who will lose their jobs, I feel bad for them, however Toyota is opening a new plant, and are looking for people to work for them, and I am sure a lot of these people will work for Toyota instead.

I also agree with the government giving a tax rebate on environmentally friendly cars.

However, about playing devil's advocate, the government would get itself into a big hole for giving one major corporation money, and not another one, which would create problems.
gc





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:

However, about playing devil's advocate, the government would get itself into a big hole for giving one major corporation money, and not another one, which would create problems.


Yes, that could be a problem. However, there might be ways to get around that. I think that if we are to give money to corporations, there should at least be some strings attached. The corporations should be able to show that they are in desperate need of money or will go out of business (though this could lead to some fraudulent accounting), and the money should ensure that no jobs are lost. They should also show that there are no other options for those jobs (e.g. a Toyota plant in need of workers).
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
I am not a big fan of corporate welfare. I find it repulsive that my hard earned tax money goes to General Motors and other large companies like that. GM is not doing so well because consumers do not like what they produce, end of story. I am sick of people like Buzz Hargrove telling the government to put my tax money into financing GM to keep jobs.

Not only that, government money actually leads to the situation GM is in now; inefficient manufacturing processes that they have kept because they were making money regardless. Poor designs that made money because they were subsidized by public money. Essentially, the government of Canada has paid them to produce crap cars that nobody wants. Eventually, they lost all the good will and customer loyalty that they had built up over the decades, and now not even billions from the government are enough. They lose a thousand or two on every vehicle they produce, while Nissan Makes $2000 a vehicle.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
The corporations should be able to show that they are in desperate need of money or will go out of business (though this could lead to some fraudulent accounting), and the money should ensure that no jobs are lost.


Survival of the weakest. Darwin is turning in his grave.
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:

Survival of the weakest. Darwin is turning in his grave.


So we should let the workers lose their jobs, and then deny them welfare? And if they are too weak to survive we should just let them die?
mrsocko





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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GC wrote
Quote:
So we should let the workers lose their jobs, and then deny them welfare? And if they are too weak to survive we should just let them die?


Yeh, that's exactly what Craig was thinking. :roll:
Mac





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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
So we should let the workers lose their jobs, and then deny them welfare? And if they are too weak to survive we should just let them die?

Do you suppose that if GM and others in similar situations were pushed to the brink instead of being rescued yet again by taxpayer dollars, they might finally change their corporate and union cultures rather than fall into bankrupcy?

Do you imagine that if GM failed to change and did collapse, people would stop buying cars?

-Mac
SFrank85





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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Truth be told, a friend of mine worked at GM for several years, and he was told to quit working too hard, while he was making more money than most people can dream of making. Unions have a role to play in this as well, right Buzz and CAW!!!
Mac





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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SFrank85 wrote:
Truth be told, a friend of mine worked at GM for several years, and he was told to quit working too hard, while he was making more money than most people can dream of making. Unions have a role to play in this as well, right Buzz and CAW!!!

No surprises there, SFrank85...

According to Buzz, socialism is the answer. There's a name for people who keep trying the same solution over & over, yet keep expecting the results to change...

-Mac
gc





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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac wrote:

Do you suppose that if GM and others in similar situations were pushed to the brink instead of being rescued yet again by taxpayer dollars, they might finally change their corporate and union cultures rather than fall into bankrupcy?
-Mac


No, they would probably just cut jobs/close plants as they have been doing a lot lately.
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Libs take on Tories for inaction on economy

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