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Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:

I think we can agree to some extent. It's obvious that murder is a much more horrific crime than dealing drugs, and that dealing drugs is forgivable. Using drugs, especially something as relatively harmless and non-addictive as marijuana, is even more forgivable. I don't think everyone should go out and smoke pot (I don't smoke the stuff myself), but I don't think we should be punishing people for something that does not do any harm to anyone else. To each his own.


That's a fallacy if I've ever heard of one. Marijuana is addictive. It is also clearly not without risk, not the least of which is an increased risk of heart attack and having " 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke and has the potential to cause cancer of the lungs and respiratory tract."

Source: Mayo clinic. Follow the two links.
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:

That's a fallacy if I've ever heard of one. Marijuana is addictive. It is also clearly not without risk, not the least of which is an increased risk of heart attack and having " 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke and has the potential to cause cancer of the lungs and respiratory tract."

Source: Mayo clinic. Follow the two links.


Perhaps you didn't notice that I said marijuana was relatively harmless and non-addictive. It is not physically addictive (unlike nicotine, alcohol or crystal meth). As for it having more carcinogens, please see my previous post.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:
gc wrote:

I think we can agree to some extent. It's obvious that murder is a much more horrific crime than dealing drugs, and that dealing drugs is forgivable. Using drugs, especially something as relatively harmless and non-addictive as marijuana, is even more forgivable. I don't think everyone should go out and smoke pot (I don't smoke the stuff myself), but I don't think we should be punishing people for something that does not do any harm to anyone else. To each his own.


That's a fallacy if I've ever heard of one. Marijuana is addictive. It is also clearly not without risk, not the least of which is an increased risk of heart attack and having " 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke and has the potential to cause cancer of the lungs and respiratory tract."

Source: Mayo clinic. Follow the two links.


In fairness to gc the "harm" is mostly to one self (especially in the case of pot). Whereas murder is not. I can forgive someone who breaks the law but mostly hurts themself. I can't forgive someone who breaks the law and hurts someone else.
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Bleatmop wrote:

That's a fallacy if I've ever heard of one. Marijuana is addictive. It is also clearly not without risk, not the least of which is an increased risk of heart attack and having " 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke and has the potential to cause cancer of the lungs and respiratory tract."

Source: Mayo clinic. Follow the two links.


Perhaps you didn't notice that I said marijuana was relatively harmless and non-addictive. It is not physically addictive (unlike nicotine, alcohol or crystal meth). As for it having more carcinogens, please see my previous post.


Oh, I noticed. I also noticed you were minimizing its effects when you said "relatively". There is nothing minimal about marijuana's effects.
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
In fairness to gc the "harm" is mostly to one self (especially in the case of pot). Whereas murder is not. I can forgive someone who breaks the law but mostly hurts themself. I can't forgive someone who breaks the law and hurts someone else.


I agree. My point was more on him minimizing the downside of marijuana rather than anything about your discussion with him. I suppose it was a bit of a thread jack, so I apologize for that.
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:

In fairness to gc the "harm" is mostly to one self (especially in the case of pot). Whereas murder is not. I can forgive someone who breaks the law but mostly hurts themself. I can't forgive someone who breaks the law and hurts someone else.


Exactly. I tend to believe in small government. I don't think it's the government's job to save us from ourselves, or to act like our parents. If someone wants to kill themselves smoking, who am I to tell them they can't. Even if someone wants to kill themselves with meth, that's really none of my business so long as they are not breaking into homes to support their habit.
gc





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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleatmop wrote:

Oh, I noticed. I also noticed you were minimizing its effects when you said "relatively". There is nothing minimal about marijuana's effects.


I'm not minimizing anything. Compared to other drugs, marijuana is pretty harmless. I'd say it's less harmless than nicotine, alcohol, meth, heroin, cocaine, sleeping pills, painkillers etc. In fact, the only "drug" I can think of (off the top of my head) that is less harmful than marijuana is caffeine.
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gc wrote:
Bleatmop wrote:

Oh, I noticed. I also noticed you were minimizing its effects when you said "relatively". There is nothing minimal about marijuana's effects.


I'm not minimizing anything. Compared to other drugs, marijuana is pretty harmless. I'd say it's less harmless than nicotine, alcohol, meth, heroin, cocaine, sleeping pills, painkillers etc. In fact, the only "drug" I can think of (off the top of my head) that is less harmful than marijuana is caffeine.


Fine, have it your way. I guess I was wrong. You are clearly not minimizing the effects of marijuana.
pcml
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the point not being addressed is the original title that speaks of cannabis being worse than cigarettes ,which I think we all now agree is false.



I can not say what I would say , as I have been told I will be banned so I will put an email address here because I would like to speak to members like FL and GC and see if we could collectively try a few things elsewhere to maybe reach the party together to restore a sane view with regards to the Canadian drug mentality.

pcml@telus.net
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcml wrote:
I think the point not being addressed is the original title that speaks of cannabis being worse than cigarettes ,which I think we all now agree is false.

pcml@telus.net


Oh I wouldn't be too sure about that! I think I can have a cigarette before I get in my car and not be impaired, if you have just smoked cannabis can you cay the same thing?
pcml
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazymamma wrote:
pcml wrote:
I think the point not being addressed is the original title that speaks of cannabis being worse than cigarettes ,which I think we all now agree is false.

pcml@telus.net


Oh I wouldn't be too sure about that! I think I can have a cigarette before I get in my car and not be impaired, if you have just smoked cannabis can you cay the same thing?


If you are a non smoker and have a cigarette maybe not.


According to the British and Australian Governments the answer is yes.

It all depends on the individual doesn't it.
It should be impairment that is actually looked at and not blood chemistry or yes we are going the wrong way.

If some dentists and doctors can function completely normally using things like heroin what makes everyone think cannabis users become monsters when they smoke?

Cannabis is not worse than tobacco ,to argue this is pointless.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcml wrote:
crazymamma wrote:
pcml wrote:
I think the point not being addressed is the original title that speaks of cannabis being worse than cigarettes ,which I think we all now agree is false.

pcml@telus.net


Oh I wouldn't be too sure about that! I think I can have a cigarette before I get in my car and not be impaired, if you have just smoked cannabis can you cay the same thing?



It all depends on the individual doesn't it.
It should be impairment that is actually looked at and not blood chemistry or yes we are going the wrong way.

If some dentists and doctors can function completely normally using things like heroin what makes everyone think cannabis users become monsters when they smoke?

Cannabis is not worse than tobacco ,to argue this is pointless.


If you are not going to use blood chemistry as your baseline how are we to define impairment? Are we not then just using the wishy washy subjective findings of a police officer that will not be held up in court?Are you opposed to drinking and driving? Are you unhappy with how the baseline was formed for that?What would be your basis for impairment?

Please point out these dentists and doctors preforming on heroin, I shall avoid them. Do I think all pot smokers are monsters or typical snowboarding, living in their Mamma's basement, brownie munching, ain't got no ambition, Xbox playing dudes? Of course not. I just question the impairment issue is all.
pcml
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the police cars have video now or could and yes I could spot impairment most times and many have been charged for failing simple balance road side tests.

No need for my blood , urine or my spit.
You think that its OK to provide those things on demand , well that is just your opinion and as I said I am only looking for a certain type of mind set conservative member ,not all types obviously.

But then I am a freedom oriented type of person.


Send an email to me and I will tell you whether your doctor treated you last while he himself was on drugs.
Maybe I should just publish all the names for you?
Yes I will get right on that.
crazymamma





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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcml wrote:
All the police cars have video now or could and yes I could spot impairment most times and many have been charged for failing simple balance road side tests.

No need for my blood , urine or my spit.
You think that its OK to provide those things on demand , well that is just your opinion

But then I am a freedom oriented type of person.

.


Ummmm, jeepers I don't remember saying I was for anything one way or another yet.

But seems to me that if you are up for legalizing something you should have all these little kinks ( like what constitutes impairment for a legal definition) all figured out all nice and tight like.

Seems a very liberal kind of thing to do 1. attack instead of pondering a real answer to a valid question. 2. Want something but have no idea how to institute a workable solution, except to insist you are right

Oh and I guess because I asked a question I must not be of the right Mindset? Lovely.
truth4freedom





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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as impairment goes, I have had one toke of different strains that left me unable to operate a vehicle or even carry on a coherent conversation. In that regard marijuana is far worse than a cigarette. I also believe that it impairs the respiratory system more than cigarettes do from my own personal experience and from some studies that have started coming out as well. My contribution to society was non existent when I smoked marijuana compared to my contribution now. My level of personal growth and contribution to society was far more impaired from marijuana than it is from tobacco use, and I observed the same pattern with other users I encountered over the years.
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