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kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Green is all well and good, til somebody loses their job.... Reply with quote

http://www.globeinvestor.com/s.....8/GIStory/

Quote:
DaimlerChrysler AG has scrapped plans to build a new luxury sedan called the Chrysler Imperial at its Brampton, Ont., factory amid gasoline prices of $3 (U.S.) a gallon in the United States and moves by Washington to require auto makers to dramatically improve the fuel economy of their fleets.

In a separate development, Toronto has joined the movement toward requiring taxis to be hybrid or low-emission vehicles, following New York and other U.S. cities. Taxis are a major market for the Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis rear-wheel-drive, full-sized sedans made at a Ford Motor Co. plant in St. Thomas, Ont.

Ford has already cut production in St. Thomas to one shift because of declining demand, and unless the auto maker can find markets other than taxi fleets and police forces, the future for the factory is grim, one analyst said yesterday.


A carbon tax would raise the price of fuel even further. I wonder how many decades it will take for people to make the connection between Kyoto, and the unemployment line?
justice
Guest








PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you think would have happened if we had spent the 6 billion we have spent in Afghanistan on starting Green industries by spreading it out guaranteeing loans to produce energy efficient devices.

We need decentralization, a solar collector on every roof,,people free to make money on the grid, new ideas
there's money in providing the world with solutions.


And tons of jobs , it takes courage and leadership. Real leadership.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
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votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is about to get funny. For ma anyway, not the people of Quebec.

http://www.globeinvestor.com/s.....0/GIStory/
Quote:
MONTREAL Quebec's controversial carbon tax on energy companies comes into effect Monday, despite fears it could also target industries that use large amounts of petroleum and carbon products.

The green tax is believed to be the first of its kind in Canada and will be used to help Quebec reach its Kyoto Protocol targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 2012.

Quebec will put almost a penny of tax 0.8 cents on every litre of gas sold and 0.9 cents of tax on every litre of diesel sold.

We are about to get a lesson in why carbon taxes are bad. The only question is, how fast are people going to reject these types of measures, once it hits the gas stations, grocery stores, power bills, and everything else in the economy.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
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votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anyone out there who does not think that the cost of fuel affects the cost of food: http://www.ext.colostate.edu/P.....05006.html

A typical year of fuel use on my Dad's farm would be seed (diskers), harrow, spray, swath, combine, and truck. Each one of those operations burns fuel, and that does not include summer fallow, which could be either an application of chemical, or 2 to 3 tillage operations. You can see that there are several gallons per acre used in a typical year. Lets use the numbers from the report, I assume they are in US gallons.

0.9 cents per liter carbon tax
1000 acres farmed
disk 0.35
harrow 0.4
spray 0.1
swath 0.55
combine 1
total: 2.4 gallons per acre

2.4 US gallons is 9.08498832 liters, multiply that by 0.9 cents per liter, you come to $8.18 per acre, you farm 1000 acres that is $8,180 in extra expenses every year. That does not include the costs of trucking, rail transport, elevation fees (electricity comes from coal plants), processing, packaging (plastic comes from fossil fuels), transporting it again to stores, transporting it again in your car after you buy it, and cooking it. All those steps involve fossil fuel in one form or another. And what about the cost to employees of the grocery store, driving to work? I wonder if they are going to get a raise to cover that?

As you can see, a carbon tax feeds upon itself, adding layer upon layer of expense at every stage of food production.

At 25 bushels per acre, the price of wheat would have to rise by $0.33 per bushel to cover this tax. Before the age of ethanol and biodiesel, the price of wheat was pretty stagnant around the $5 per bushel mark since the 70s (farmers have zero pricing power). Thank God for biofuel, it has already pushed up the price of wheat by about $1 per bushel this year.

PS. the Green Party carbon tax calls for a 25 cent per liter rise in the cost of diesel, if I recall correctly.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's funny how those pushing the green agenda ignore little things like facts. Good thread, kw.

-Mac
biggie





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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The irony here is of course that the "workers party" - the NDP, furthers causes that will put its own membership out of work.

:lol:
Bleatmop





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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
The irony here is of course that the "workers party" - the NDP, furthers causes that will put its own membership out of work.

:lol:


I think that is why Buzz Hargrove abandoned them last election.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, looks like I made a mistake on the math. I punched in 0.9 which would be 90 cents instead of 0.009 which would be 9 tenths of a cent. So move the decimal point 2 places to the left.

Still, it illustrated the immediate inflationary effect of any rise in the cost of fuel. Also how the effect compounds in unexpected ways. Adding to the cost of fuel does not only affect the retail price of fuel at the pumps.
JBG





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Location: NYC Area

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
This is about to get funny. For ma anyway, not the people of Quebec.

http://www.globeinvestor.com/s.....0/GIStory/
Quote:
MONTREAL Quebec's controversial carbon tax on energy companies comes into effect Monday, despite fears it could also target industries that use large amounts of petroleum and carbon products.

The green tax is believed to be the first of its kind in Canada and will be used to help Quebec reach its Kyoto Protocol targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 2012.

Quebec will put almost a penny of tax 0.8 cents on every litre of gas sold and 0.9 cents of tax on every litre of diesel sold.

We are about to get a lesson in why carbon taxes are bad. The only question is, how fast are people going to reject these types of measures, once it hits the gas stations, grocery stores, power bills, and everything else in the economy.
Especially since these taxes will not lower the temperature on any particular day, at any particular place. The whole thing would be funny if it weren't so sad.
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