Home FAQ Search Memberlist User Groups Register Login   

BloggingTories.ca Forum IndexBloggingTories.ca Forum Index
    Index     FAQ     Search     Register     Login         JOIN THE DISCUSSION - CLICK HERE      

*NEW* Login or register using your Facebook account.

Not a member? Join the fastest growing conservative community!
Membership is free and takes 15 seconds


CLICK HERE or use Facebook to login or register ----> Connect



Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  

Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 5
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Should Canada have mandatory military service?
Yes
38%
 38%  [ 22 ]
No
61%
 61%  [ 35 ]
Total Votes : 57

Author Message
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Mandatory military service Reply with quote

I think all Canadian men should have to serve one year in the military and all immigrants should have to do the same as a condition of citizenship.
Riley W





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 857
Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5Reputation: 35.5
votes: 10
Location: Manitoba

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was just training, sure... but if it was to go to war then I say no.

Unless its WWIII I don't think we should ever draft or force service.
JasonSkald





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Reputation: 2.8Reputation: 2.8

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a ridiculous proposition, for many reasons...

1) Despite our impressive military tradition, modern Canada has a relatively pacifistic population - any political party that proposed peacetime universal conscription would never hold office.

Once conscripted, many of these unwilling soldiers would probably have little to no interest or dedication to their military career.

2) The cost - we barely provide our current military with enough money to do their jobs, how are we going to find the money to train, house, feed, pay and equip millions of recruits?

In addition to the direct costs of paying for all these conscripts, think about the economic costs - that's millions of young Canadians who are delaying their education, career, etc. and contributing nothing to the economy.

3) What are we going to do with all these soldiers? They're only going to serve for a year so they can't learn too many skills, skills that are critical for today's modern warfare such as computers, electronics, heavy machinery, tactics, etc.. Are we going to make a few divisions of riflemen and use them as cannonfodder?

4) You'll deter immigration to the country as a) mandatory military service would be an obvious pain in the ass for all immigrants trying to establish themselves in a new country b) many immigrants are fleeing nations where they have been the targets and the victims of armed forces - they are not going to eagerly flock to military service.

5) "Why only men and not women?" Many countries such as America (Selective Service) and Switzerland are facing legal problems over the legality of conscripting only men and not women - we do live in a post-feminist modern society after all.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No... As an ex-military I say NO
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JasonSkald wrote:
2) The cost - we barely provide our current military with enough money to do their jobs, how are we going to find the money to train, house, feed, pay and equip millions of recruits?

In addition to the direct costs of paying for all these conscripts, think about the economic costs - that's millions of young Canadians who are delaying their education, career, etc. and contributing nothing to the economy.


France has mandatory two years of service and their per capita GDP and living standards are similar to Canada. I'm only advocating one year of service so our cost would be half.

Quote:
3) What are we going to do with all these soldiers? They're only going to serve for a year so they can't learn too many skills, skills that are critical for today's modern warfare such as computers, electronics, heavy machinery, tactics, etc.. Are we going to make a few divisions of riflemen and use them as cannonfodder?


The most important skill they would learn is discipline. BTW, I took a one year program in computer science and now I'm IT manager at a hundred million dollar company.

Quote:
4) You'll deter immigration to the country as a) mandatory military service would be an obvious pain in the ass for all immigrants trying to establish themselves in a new country


At least the ones we got would be loyal.

Quote:
b) many immigrants are fleeing nations where they have been the targets and the victims of armed forces - they are not going to eagerly flock to military service.


Then they can go elsewhere.

Quote:
5) "Why only men and not women?" Many countries such as America (Selective Service) and Switzerland are facing legal problems over the legality of conscripting only men and not women - we do live in a post-feminist modern society after all.


We'll deal with the legalities if and when they come. There is a reason women traditionally haven't been central to a nation's army and regardless of the label you want to attach to our society I will put forth ideas consistent with my ideals.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as armies go, it seems that the volunteer army is the best. I don't think that it is possible to force people to take responsibility for themselves and the future of their country, that is something that they just have to realize on their own. Also, there are many other ways, besides military service, that you can help your country.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm of two minds on this. It seems to work well for other democracies, most notably Israel and Switzerland, and would certainly have benefits in reinforcing strong values amongs the citizenry. I don't know that I'd do it your way though. Perhaps mandatory enlistment as reservists from 18 - 22, with the option of either going regular force at any time or extending their reserve service after that, mandatory for males, females and those with religious considerations (ex. Hutterites) may opt out.

That being said, I think Jason's correct on how poorly recieved that kind of policy would be by most Canadians, and on how much it would cost - probably quadruple our current operating budget at the least, not too mention acquisitions of equipment and infrastructure. The training logisitics would be a nightmare.
Hasdrubal





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1112
Reputation: 66
votes: 5
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you imagine all the taxes needed to cover all the cheques Vets would recieve? My god man every Canadian would receive one unless they are not medically fit for duty. :wink:
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Posts: 4415
Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8Reputation: 47.8
votes: 36

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
As far as armies go, it seems that the volunteer army is the best. I don't think that it is possible to force people to take responsibility for themselves and the future of their country, that is something that they just have to realize on their own. Also, there are many other ways, besides military service, that you can help your country.


I don't see it as a way to service your country. I see it as a way to teach people responsiblity. I think our society would have far fewer problems if we had to endure one year of hellish training.
JasonSkald





Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Reputation: 2.8Reputation: 2.8

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
JasonSkald wrote:
2) The cost - we barely provide our current military with enough money to do their jobs, how are we going to find the money to train, house, feed, pay and equip millions of recruits?

In addition to the direct costs of paying for all these conscripts, think about the economic costs - that's millions of young Canadians who are delaying their education, career, etc. and contributing nothing to the economy.


France has mandatory two years of service and their per capita GDP and living standards are similar to Canada. I'm only advocating one year of service so our cost would be half.

Quote:
3) What are we going to do with all these soldiers? They're only going to serve for a year so they can't learn too many skills, skills that are critical for today's modern warfare such as computers, electronics, heavy machinery, tactics, etc.. Are we going to make a few divisions of riflemen and use them as cannonfodder?


The most important skill they would learn is discipline. BTW, I took a one year program in computer science and now I'm IT manager at a hundred million dollar company.

Quote:
4) You'll deter immigration to the country as a) mandatory military service would be an obvious pain in the ass for all immigrants trying to establish themselves in a new country


At least the ones we got would be loyal.

Quote:
b) many immigrants are fleeing nations where they have been the targets and the victims of armed forces - they are not going to eagerly flock to military service.


Then they can go elsewhere.

Quote:
5) "Why only men and not women?" Many countries such as America (Selective Service) and Switzerland are facing legal problems over the legality of conscripting only men and not women - we do live in a post-feminist modern society after all.


We'll deal with the legalities if and when they come. There is a reason women traditionally haven't been central to a nation's army and regardless of the label you want to attach to our society I will put forth ideas consistent with my ideals.


1) Conscription was ended in France in 2001. Germany still has national service, but most of their conscripts choose to serve in non-military civilian roles, such as nursing and social work. (these conscripts have actually become a crucial part of their health-care services, as they perform the tough jobs for poor pay) There is a general move in Europe (and thus NATO) to phase out peacetime conscription, as it is ill-suited to modern war.

2) I would argue that you can't (and/or shouldn't) enforce discipline and love for one's country by being forced to perform military service.

3) I find no problem with the general loyalty of the vast majority of Canada's immigrants. While I dislike multiculturalism and the tug-of-war it creates between immigrant's identities, their general loyalty is the equal of any other countries immigrants. Why would we want to turn away or deter skilled immigrants who could contribute to our country's society and economy, by making them waste their time playing soldier?

There's a reason why even in America, a far more militarized country than ours, there is a wide consensus that the draft should never be instituted except in times of dire national need. The generals don't want it, the politicians don't want it, and the volunteer soldiers don't want it.

What we should be doing is giving more funding to our volunteer, professional troops, and encouraging more Canadians to volunteer for the Forces with good pay, training, quality of life, educational opportunities, etc etc. (and yes, we should try and get more immigrants and minorities into the Forces)
Stephen





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 645
Reputation: 72.9
votes: 5
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should watch the movie or read the book titled Starship Troopers. It deals with the concept of service (mostly military) in order to attain true citizenship (as opposed to a non-citizen civilian without voting status)

also, give this a read:
http://www.space.com/sciencefi.....00610.html

"Service guarantees citizenship" has been criticized as having parallels to a fascistic society.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while since I read it, but as I recall, voting was the only benefit a citizen had that a civilian did not (plus running for public office). I don't think that requiring voluntary military service for voter eligibility = fascism...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moreover, you don't want a gun-hating leftist in the fox-hole sitting next to you and messing the whole thing up. Professional armies have more will to fight. Conscripts don't fight like professionals do
Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 544
Reputation: 16.6Reputation: 16.6
votes: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think 2 years min should mandatory, you need at least that with the time for training added to that !
cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 334
Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never do it...if I wanted to join up, I would...upon my own free will. I would not do it if I was forced to...It kinda takes the "volunteer" out of volunteer army, doesnt it? Try to pursaude more people to join up, don't force them. Any government that institutes that plan would sink in seconds...

erl
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 5

Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next  


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Mandatory military service

phpBBCopyright 2001, 2005 phpBB