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TealTories





Joined: 26 Oct 2006
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Location: Calgary

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Lets makes some waves Reply with quote

It seems to me that when the government was acting more on basic conservative principles and pandering less to MSM and lobby groups they had a better approval rating with Canadians.
Harper especially and conservatives in general are better on the real issues than their opposition.
Lately, especially on the budget and enviroment file, it seems that they are trying the liberal approach to policy making (trying to be all to everyone).
My beleif is if they stay principled and makes some waves in the next parlimentary sessions, and of course sell their ideas correctly, their approval rating will be so high the opposition wouldnt dare try to defeat them.
In short what I am saying rule as though you have a majority and he will get a majority.
Mac





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: John Baird's riding...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes sense to me. The principles which got Harper and company elected will see them through. We can all see how well moving to the centre is going.

-Mac
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Lets makes some waves Reply with quote

TealTories wrote:
It seems to me that when the government was acting more on basic conservative principles and pandering less to MSM and lobby groups they had a better approval rating with Canadians.
Harper especially and conservatives in general are better on the real issues than their opposition.
Lately, especially on the budget and enviroment file, it seems that they are trying the liberal approach to policy making (trying to be all to everyone).
My beleif is if they stay principled and makes some waves in the next parlimentary sessions, and of course sell their ideas correctly, their approval rating will be so high the opposition wouldnt dare try to defeat them.
In short what I am saying rule as though you have a majority and he will get a majority.

This sums up very nicely what I have been thinking for quite some time. For me, Harper's "jump the shark" moment was the 2007 budget. I understand trying to appeal to middle, but it was such a dramatic swing, IMO.

Wikipedia has a nice definition that I think could apply to Harper. Bold added for emphasis.
Quote:
Jumping the shark is a metaphor that was originally used to denote the tipping point at which a [political party] is deemed by [voters] to have passed its peak, or has introduced plot twists that are logically inconsistent in terms of everything that has preceded them. Once [political party] has "jumped the shark," the [voter] senses <b>a noticeable decline in quality or feels the [political party] has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm.</b>


It does not surprise me that groups are starting up to fill the vacuum that Harper created when he shifted to the centre. Having said all this, Harper still gets my vote because the alternatives are worse.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, if he still gets your vote, then what exactly is the incentive to stop shifting to the center? How exactly, if the CPC is still getting your vote, do you expect to apply any pressure to move them back to the right? The media won't do it for you. Lobbyists won't do it for you.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
So, if he still gets your vote, then what exactly is the incentive to stop shifting to the center? How exactly, if the CPC is still getting your vote, do you expect to apply any pressure to move them back to the right? The media won't do it for you. Lobbyists won't do it for you.


I don't expect the media or lobbyists to do anything for me. In every election that I was eligible to vote in, I have voted based on principles, regardless of party winability. I supported the Reform Party and Alliance federally and the Socreds and BC Reform Party provincially. I realized after the 1996 election when the NDP beat the Liberals in seats but not in popular vote, how my vote and thousands like me, put the NDP into power for another term. This is why I vote for the BC Liberal Party today and not the BC Conservative or any other right wing party.

As much as I would like to support a new right wing start up party federally, doing so will indirectly get me a Liberal government headed by Dion. Do you honestly think a new party could get organized by the time the next election rolls around? And if they do, what chance to they really have to determine the balance of power, let alone win a single seat?

Realistically, only two parties have a shot at forming government, one led by Dion and the other by Harper. Who do you chose?

The only incentives for Harper to stop moving to the centre are:
1. He loses caucus members because of the shift in policy.
2. Right of centre candidates will chose not to run in the next election.
3. A <b>serious</b> challenge from the right emerges with people who are not wing nuts running things.
4. He loses in the next election and Dion forms a minority government. If this happens, Harper is most likely done as a leader.

I can only vote on principle so many times. I don't think that a true right wing party will ever win a majority in Canada. Sadly, I just have to be happy with the little bits of right wing policy that occasionally trickle out of Ottawa. I truly wish it did not have to be this way, but I guess the government is for all Canadians, not just me.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a Liberal government headed by Dion would do more for conservatism in this country than a Harper led minority moving to the center. Maybe the Liberal brand would be tarnished in a manner similar to the Bob Rae brand?

I think what people need is prolonged forced dosage of the hard left socialism that they think they like. I think the best way to move the center right in this country would be to force 3 consecutive NDP majorities on the country. The only way people are going to give up on the left is if they get some personal experience with it.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Maybe a Liberal government headed by Dion would do more for conservatism in this country than a Harper led minority moving to the center. Maybe the Liberal brand would be tarnished in a manner similar to the Bob Rae brand?


I would have thought that Jean and Paul would have been enough. I think you are right though.

kwlafayette wrote:
I think what people need is prolonged forced dosage of the hard left socialism that they think they like. I think the best way to move the center right in this country would be to force 3 consecutive NDP majorities on the country. The only way people are going to give up on the left is if they get some personal experience with it.


Worked for BC.
Craig
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
So, if he still gets your vote, then what exactly is the incentive to stop shifting to the center? How exactly, if the CPC is still getting your vote, do you expect to apply any pressure to move them back to the right? The media won't do it for you. Lobbyists won't do it for you.


I believe Harper will do it himself once he gets a majority.
palomino_pony





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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
I believe Harper will do it himself once he gets a majority.


I hope so too. It is hard to what you want with a minority. I am impressed that his government has lasted this long.

Time will tell.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
I believe Harper will do it himself once he gets a majority.

So you are saying that the CPC has a hidden agenda then? That we will not see their true colors until the have the majority? I don't like hidden agendas.
Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Craig wrote:
I believe Harper will do it himself once he gets a majority.

So you are saying that the CPC has a hidden agenda then? That we will not see their true colors until the have the majority? I don't like hidden agendas.


I can tell you I do not think that the CPC will get a majority untill we see their true colors. Talk proves nothing promising to Stand Up For Canada and Canadians means more then talk. It means action must be taken to back up that talk, we all heard the promises of standing up For Canada and Canadians we all heard the talk now we are all looking for the walk. You talk the talk you must walk the walk, action is the only voice that Canada and Canadians will hear! Action now Mr. Harper let me build our Navy in Canada at my shipyard !Let me supply your Ice Breakers I will build them in my yard, let me supply your heavy lift aircraft, let me be Your Action For You. Let me make adds for you of Canadians building our ships for Canada ? Let me make adds for you of Canadian Heavy Lift Aircraft flown by Canadians for Canada. Run those as Standing up for Canada and Canadians getting things Done for Canada ! This is the leadership that Canada and Canadians want , this will get you a Majority Mr. Harper. Adds showing how you Mr. Harper and the CPC stand up for Canada and Canadians. Leadership is Action Mr. Harper, Action will get you a majority !
biggie





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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Craig wrote:
I believe Harper will do it himself once he gets a majority.

So you are saying that the CPC has a hidden agenda then? That we will not see their true colors until the have the majority? I don't like hidden agendas.


I don't like the use of the term hidden agenda...

Specifically because every man, woman and child on this planet has one.

:?
Nicklan





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
kwlafayette wrote:
Craig wrote:
I believe Harper will do it himself once he gets a majority.

So you are saying that the CPC has a hidden agenda then? That we will not see their true colors until the have the majority? I don't like hidden agendas.


I don't like the use of the term hidden agenda...

Specifically because every man, woman and child on this planet has one.

:?

I don't have a hinden agenda and most Canadians do not !
Maybe biggie torys do ?
Nicklan





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
kwlafayette wrote:
So, if he still gets your vote, then what exactly is the incentive to stop shifting to the center? How exactly, if the CPC is still getting your vote, do you expect to apply any pressure to move them back to the right? The media won't do it for you. Lobbyists won't do it for you.


I believe Harper will do it himself once he gets a majority.

I belive that Harper is Prime Minister now and has the power to do what ever he wants now and has had now for 2 years. The people of this country know he has the power to act now and does not!
He will never get a majority unless he governs now like he already does, then he may have a chance of actully getting a majority at the next fixed election date. That election is not for 2 more years yet, the election in 2 years is not for the libs to win but the Torys to lose !
cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicklan wrote:
biggie wrote:
kwlafayette wrote:
Craig wrote:
I believe Harper will do it himself once he gets a majority.

So you are saying that the CPC has a hidden agenda then? That we will not see their true colors until the have the majority? I don't like hidden agendas.


I don't like the use of the term hidden agenda...

Specifically because every man, woman and child on this planet has one.

:?

I don't have a hinden agenda and most Canadians do not !
Maybe biggie torys do ?


I think what Biggie means is that everyone has something they want to do, but won't until they can be sure they can do it...what I mean is...if you are an anti-abortion advocate and you want to get elected, then you shake people's hands and say "I want to lower the poor's taxes" and "I support universal health care"...not "I don't want women having abortions..."...if you get elected, that might happen to weasle it's way into your policy...

erl
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