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Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Quote:
but as you may know many wars are fought at sea and in the air over the sea and over the land.

There is almost (I say this because you should never say never) no chance that Canada will get involved in a war like this without America. If we have America we will wint he naval and air war. What was the last war where this was a real issue? 25 years ago when the Uk and Arg. fought!
Quote:
or we could build 3 Super Super Cape Size air craft Carriers ourslelfs.

Now you want Canada to build 3 aircraft carriers!?!?!?!?! China doesnt even have 1 yet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....iers_today
Nine countries maintain a total of 20 aircraft carriers in active service: United States, United Kingdom, France, Russia, Italy, India, Spain, Brazil, and Thailand. In addition the People's Republic of China's People's Liberation Army Navy possesses the former Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag, but most naval analysts believe that they have no intention to operate it, but instead are using Varyag to learn about carrier operations for future Chinese aircraft carriers. South Korea, United Kingdom, Canada, the People's Republic of China, India, Japan, Australia, Chile, Singapore and France also operate vessels capable of carrying and operating multiple helicopters.

I really think a Canadian investment in something other than an aircraft carrier would be a better way for canada to 'pull our own weight' as you put it.


You are right China does not have 1 aircraft carrier they have atleast the 2 they bought from Russia and at least 2 under construction review the lloyds of London reports on shipbuilding.
I would like to remind you of the Second World War, Desert storm, and now Iran, the fact that we have been seen as not being willing to carry our own weight in the miltary of North America has been a soft spot in Washington sence we decided not to protect ourselfs and hide under an American Wing free of charge !
FascistLibertarian





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You are right China does not have 1 aircraft carrier they have atleast the 2 they bought from Russia and at least 2 under construction review the lloyds of London reports on shipbuilding.
I would like to remind you of the Second World War, Desert storm, and now Iran, the fact that we have been seen as not being willing to carry our own weight in the miltary of North America has been a soft spot in Washington sence we decided not to protect ourselfs and hide under an American Wing free of charge !


China is no where near being able to challenge the USA, more aircraft carriers from Canada will do nothing.

In terms of the 2nd world war I am not sure what you mean by Canada not carrying their weight. I agree our navy was technology outdated and the battle of the st larwence and the atlantic were not our finest hour but we pulled our weight.

The defense of North America?
you need to ask 2 questions
1) who or what is a threat to NA?
2) how can we counter this threat?

Canada buying aircraft carriers does nothing to make North America or Canada safer.

Canada has always relied on the US and the UK for assistance in moving men and materials. I am not sure what you wish to do besides make Canada be able to logistically support a Canadian only force. A Canadian only force will almost certainly never be used for anything, if we get involved in something I cant think of a situation where the US would not also be involved.
Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 544
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Quote:
You are right China does not have 1 aircraft carrier they have atleast the 2 they bought from Russia and at least 2 under construction review the lloyds of London reports on shipbuilding.
I would like to remind you of the Second World War, Desert storm, and now Iran, the fact that we have been seen as not being willing to carry our own weight in the miltary of North America has been a soft spot in Washington sence we decided not to protect ourselfs and hide under an American Wing free of charge !


China is no where near being able to challenge the USA, more aircraft carriers from Canada will do nothing.

In terms of the 2nd world war I am not sure what you mean by Canada not carrying their weight. I agree our navy was technology outdated and the battle of the st larwence and the atlantic were not our finest hour but we pulled our weight.

The defense of North America?
you need to ask 2 questions
1) who or what is a threat to NA?
2) how can we counter this threat?

Canada buying aircraft carriers does nothing to make North America or Canada safer.

Canada has always relied on the US and the UK for assistance in moving men and materials. I am not sure what you wish to do besides make Canada be able to logistically support a Canadian only force. A Canadian only force will almost certainly never be used for anything, if we get involved in something I cant think of a situation where the US would not also be involved.


If you want to be treated as equal in America you have to pull more then our fair share. If you want real free trade for example you need to be seen as equals!
That was the same agruement that was being used on 9 10 the next day the polls changed! And we finaly had to admite that we have other enimies in the world other then Russia or China. All of a sudden the same people who had been cring why do we spend a dime on our Military where all crying where is our Military !
As far as you statement about safer, you can bet your sons life that Canada will be a lot safer if we have 1000 aircraft afloat. We can build our own aircraft as well. Because we are dependent on our friends is all the more reason why we should be self suffient!

A Canadian only force when it is used will be fighting for the survival of Canada !
I would say that is reason anuff for it, if no other !
Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carriers or not Canada should be using Canadian Contractors where ever possable. Private business can run circles around a crow corp or government department and make a profit doing it better and cheaper ! We should be using contracter BC - 17 not the government C-17 to supply the governments needs and industries hevy lift needs as well !The same with Ice Breakers for the high north and the North West Passage !
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) In times of war the government needs to step in and control industry
2) as we are not in such a time in regards to our navy why does it have to be Canadian companies not any company?
Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
1) In times of war the government needs to step in and control industry
2) as we are not in such a time in regards to our navy why does it have to be Canadian companies not any company?


1)I beleive that we are at War right now, We don't need Canada to Controll Canadians !

2) because it is Canadian Tax dollars paying for it with money and Canadian Young Men and Women paying with our blood !
Joahob





Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are forgting. Canada already has aircraft carriers.

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives.....retien.htm

Canada’s Secret Aircraft Carrier – STOL Around, eh!
Short Takeoff and Landing to honour Jean Chrétien’s legacy...

Vancouver, B.C. 21-May-2005 [JP]

Unbeknownst to Stephen Harper (Conservative Party) and Jack Layton (NDP),
Paul Martin (Liberal Prime Minister of Canada) has secretly purchased a
new aircraft carrier – in honour of the recent revelations of previous Prime Minister
Jean Chrétien’s sponsorship scandal & patronage appointments.
This aircraft carrier has been christened The HMCS Jean Chrétien.

The following photo was shot last week in B.C. waters,
showing the HMCS Jean Chrétien carrying our new secret four-engine
“Short Takeoff and Landing” (STOL) maritime patrol aircraft...

Nicklan





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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad But True the Only Canadian Aircraft Carrier !
I think it is the Harper isn't it ?
FascistLibertarian





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah you guys are right, at a time when our army is fighting a war Canada needs an aircraft carrier.
That would make our country ssssooooo much cooler. :roll:
Nicklan





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can aford to spend 5 billion on four C - 17 's but we can't afford to build aircraft carriers or anyother ships in a Canadian Owned Ship Yards or companies. We can not support or find money for the new shipyards we need, But, we can send billions to Germany and America. We can not support Canada and Canadians but we can support Americans and Germans ! We can send Canadians in to battle the enemy while our so called friends the Germans stay in Camp. Did I forget to point out the the hundreds of billions in business that these same German Companies are doing in Iran and the Middle East building plants , works and yards for our enemies there and in Asia as well !
Yet our government of Canada can not stand up for Canada and Canadians other then for them to fight, bleed and die when called for Canada. Mr. Harper you have time for them to fight and die, then you had better have time to spend in Canada with Canadians supporting them in anyway you can including economic development!
Stand Up for Real Or Quit and let some one who wants too do it !
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the motto was Stand Up for Canada, not Stand Up for Socialism...

Joking aside, our land forces have priority at the moment, for good reason. I think it will be at least five years before we can expect any major movement on naval procurement. An aircraft carrier actually wouldn't be a bad option for northern soveriegnty, but I don't see it as even a remote possibility for quite some time after that.
Nicklan





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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
I think the motto was Stand Up for Canada, not Stand Up for Socialism...

Joking aside, our land forces have priority at the moment, for good reason. I think it will be at least five years before we can expect any major movement on naval procurement. An aircraft carrier actually wouldn't be a bad option for northern soveriegnty, but I don't see it as even a remote possibility for quite some time after that.


Yes I remember what it was when I wrote it, to Peter MacKay !
I was not referring as a slogan only purposal althought that is how it turned out !
FascistLibertarian





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We can aford to spend 5 billion on four C - 17 's but we can't afford to build aircraft carriers or anyother ships in a Canadian Owned Ship Yards or companies. We can not support or find money for the new shipyards we need, But, we can send billions to Germany and America. We can not support Canada and Canadians but we can support Americans and Germans ! We can send Canadians in to battle the enemy while our so called friends the Germans stay in Camp. Did I forget to point out the the hundreds of billions in business that these same German Companies are doing in Iran and the Middle East building plants , works and yards for our enemies there and in Asia as well !
Yet our government of Canada can not stand up for Canada and Canadians other then for them to fight, bleed and die when called for Canada. Mr. Harper you have time for them to fight and die, then you had better have time to spend in Canada with Canadians supporting them in anyway you can including economic development!
Stand Up for Real Or Quit and let some one who wants too do it !


Do you know anything about the Canadian Navy in ww2 and the problems we had with technological backwardness? I think Marc Milner has written a good article on that.
Listen, you idea is stupid, if we REALLY wanted an aircraft carrier we would buy one from the Americans. If you can not understand WHY we would do this I can not help you.
The fact is Canada does not need an aircraft carrier.

FF_Canuck right on the mark. I agree the our Naval and Air arms need more support, but right now we need to deal with current operations, so anything we do should be to help the army tactically.
Nicklan I really suggest you research global arms production and sales.
Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 544
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Quote:
We can aford to spend 5 billion on four C - 17 's but we can't afford to build aircraft carriers or anyother ships in a Canadian Owned Ship Yards or companies. We can not support or find money for the new shipyards we need, But, we can send billions to Germany and America. We can not support Canada and Canadians but we can support Americans and Germans ! We can send Canadians in to battle the enemy while our so called friends the Germans stay in Camp. Did I forget to point out the the hundreds of billions in business that these same German Companies are doing in Iran and the Middle East building plants , works and yards for our enemies there and in Asia as well !
Yet our government of Canada can not stand up for Canada and Canadians other then for them to fight, bleed and die when called for Canada. Mr. Harper you have time for them to fight and die, then you had better have time to spend in Canada with Canadians supporting them in anyway you can including economic development!
Stand Up for Real Or Quit and let some one who wants too do it !


Do you know anything about the Canadian Navy in ww2 and the problems we had with technological backwardness? I think Marc Milner has written a good article on that.
Listen, you idea is stupid, if we REALLY wanted an aircraft carrier we would buy one from the Americans. If you can not understand WHY we would do this I can not help you.
The fact is Canada does not need an aircraft carrier.

FF_Canuck right on the mark. I agree the our Naval and Air arms need more support, but right now we need to deal with current operations, so anything we do should be to help the army tactically.
Nicklan I really suggest you research global arms production and sales.


I really suggest you researh Canadian Arms manufacturing, I suggest that My Idea is not as stupid as combining fascistism and liberalism that are opposits, don't make sence to support 2 kinds of government that do not agree on anything.
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicklan wrote:
I really suggest you researh Canadian Arms manufacturing, I suggest that My Idea is not as stupid as combining fascistism and liberalism that are opposits, don't make sence to support 2 kinds of government that do not agree on anything.


There are nine spelling and grammatical errors in the above paragraph. Can you find them? Kind of ironic since he is calling someone else stupid.

Seriously Nicklan, we like to keep things professional around here. If you can't take the time to write properly then find somewhere else to post.
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