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Craig
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Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject: Reforming the Reform Party Reply with quote

Quote:
OTTAWA -- Somewhere in Kingston today, a small group of disaffected Conservatives will meet to discuss what would have been unfathomable in the heady days that followed the last federal election: refounding the Reform Party.

Organizers say they have room for just 30 people, but that this weekend's event is a mere prelude to a much larger meeting later this month.

"It's now or never," the online invitation says. "This new party will never be infiltrated by Red Tories, special interest groups or Quebec again."


link
Reform





Joined: 03 May 2007
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Location: Edmonton-Strathcona or Medicine Hat

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:35 am    Post subject: Be careful Reply with quote

I do not agree with some of the priorities of the Harper minority government, but still we need to understand that if split the right again we sentence ourselves to another 13 years of Liberal majority mismanagement, misgovernment, misrepresentation, and oblivousness(I know nice word) to the canadian people. What I would like to see is a leader and party policies similar to the 1st Reform Party, one where members are consulted between conventions about how the party should react to such a measure. MPs consulting their constituents about isuues and regional values. The leader talking to all canadians. And if we find that the Harper government is more like the Mulroney government of the 80's I suggest reading the Preston Manning autobiography "Think Big" and then react.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I have financially benefited from Harper. With three kids under the age of 6 I'm getting a nice monthly payment and the GST cut help with my recent car purchase. That doesn't mean I agree with either of those policy changes.

My biggest problem with the Harper government is the fact that the size of government continues to grow at a fast pace. We need legislation limiting the growth of government to the growth of GDP.
Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that Canada needs to go green for real. I think that the party has to support the building of New Plants for the production of iron and steel in Nova Scotia. The government should be supporting building of a modern steel industry with modern clean processes. We can start by producing steel semi products with proven clean processes. We can us one of the modern iron production plants like the Corex process. Corex produces pig iron using utility grade coal and the plant will generaly produce off gases that can operate a DRI plant with. One of these plants will produce about 1.5 million tons of Pig Iron per year plus 1.5 million tons of DRI.
This 3 million tons of liquid and hot metal can be combined in electric arc furnices with 1 million tons of Scrap or more. This would give a New steel production of over 4 million tons a year. Which can produce carbon and stainless steel slabs, bloom,billets and forgging ingots. New rolling mills can be installed in Nova Scotia to produce both Flat and long products (plate.rail,beams ect). i would suggest coal bed gas co gen reheat furnaces. These can reheat the steel for the mills and also produce energy for electricity production aswell as heat. I would suggest putting these in the coal gas areas. Ofcourse Sydney, New Glasgow, Debert and Spring Hill all can produce the needed gas. Although New Glasgow has much steel industry that could and should take advangtage of low cost local rolled steel. Sydney also has the gas and experanced steel workers that can operate a new long products rolling mill with another co gen reheat furnace. Lets go green and have the coal supplied from Cape Breton as well !
With this route you only produce a fraction of the gases as with the Blast Furnace route. I guess you could call it low cost green steel !
Craig
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicklan wrote:
I think that the party has to support the building of New Plants for the production of iron and steel in Nova Scotia.


If the government should be financially supporting any industry it should be a high tech value added industry. Let China make steel. Canada can make biomedical breakthroughs.
Jason Kauppinen





Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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votes: 5

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting that complaints about Harper's performance are not accompanied by a list of which 30 or so non CPC MP's that they think that they could get onside in order to support whatever it is that they think "could have been done".

It's interesting that complaints about Harper's performance are not accompanied by any ideas on how to attract new voters to a conservative party.

It's interesting that complaints about Harper's performance are never accompanied by any personal anicdotes about how these individuals have swayed even one voter from no longer supporting the Liberals or the NDP or the Bloc.

Very interesting.
winchry





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why try to undermine the first right wing goernment in Canada in over 10 years? Once Harper get a majority we'll get the Reform agenda back but until then we just have to sit and wait.... Better then the Liberals at least.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Splitting the right will never result in a conservative government. On the other hand, when you vote for the CPC, and get Liberal budgets, you are also not geting conservative government. So it appears that we are in a situation where a conservative government is a practical impossibility.

So how would splitting the right be any worse? You vote CPC, you get Canada's new Liberal party, unwilling to talk flat tax, unwilling to talk abortion, unwilling to toe the line on Kyoto. You also have a bunch of guys confirming that there is in fact a hidden agenda, saying that we have to govern this way until we get the majority, and only then can we reveal our true policy.

So I say, why not? Unless of course, Harper and the rest recall exactly who and where their base is in the next little while. They are not implementing the policies that got them elected.
palomino_pony





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Lower Mainland, BC

PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I echo Craig's comments: personally my family and I are marginally better off today than under the Liberals, but there seems to be a lot of things coming out the PMO and cabinet that I did not really vote for (light bulb bans, $10 billion spending <b>increase</b> in the 2007 budget, playing footsies with Quebec separatists, increase in the size of government). If it weren't for the strength in foreign policy, my vote would be going somewhere else.

As for the "wait until the majority" argument, what do you think would happen if Harper swings hard to the right if he gets a majority? All those centrists would be screaming that they got duped by a "hidden agenda".

IMHO, I think what we see today is what we get these with the CPC. There will be no glorious conservative revolution if Harper gets a majority. It was inevitable once the power base shifted eastwards (Ontario) and will only get worse once it shifts further east (Quebec).

I welcome a revival of the Reform Party. I wouldn't vote for them this time around, but they might get my vote and support in the future. I think there should be more parties representing different points of view. I would rather the CPC make deals with the Reform Party to govern in a minority situation than make deals with the Bloc and NDP.
triple M





Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I'll wait just a bit longer at least until a Majority Government. Now if we were to get a Majority and still have a liberal budget as the last one was than i'll be concerned. However, a change of the leadership might be easier to move to the right if Harper fails than spliting the right.
Nicklan





Joined: 10 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig I think you are in Indian territory there, Traditionaly Canada has done both and why put an automated plant in China when what you want is energy and resources to run the plant with. As far as putting money in I think that we should be easily ablle to expect at least what the governments have done for oil and gas, auto or aviation areo industries. If it is good fo the goose it is good fo the gander !
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason Kauppinen wrote:
It's interesting that complaints about Harper's performance are not accompanied by a list of which 30 or so non CPC MP's that they think that they could get onside in order to support whatever it is that they think "could have been done".

It's interesting that complaints about Harper's performance are not accompanied by any ideas on how to attract new voters to a conservative party.

It's interesting that complaints about Harper's performance are never accompanied by any personal anicdotes about how these individuals have swayed even one voter from no longer supporting the Liberals or the NDP or the Bloc.

Very interesting.


Its not all about power or "how many people we could get onside" Jason.
Craig
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicklan wrote:
As far as putting money in I think that we should be easily ablle to expect at least what the governments have done for oil and gas, auto or aviation areo industries. If it is good fo the goose it is good fo the gander !


You are making the false assumption that I support government financial aid to the auto, aviation, and oil and gas industries. I don't.

I think business taxes should be lowered in general. IF we are to support any specific industries it should be advanced industries. Let Mexico build cars. Let China make steel. Let Canadians build software and cure diseases. We should strive to become an advanced nation rather than producers of water and steel. If we can produce raw materials on their own merit than fine. But advocating government funding for antiquated industries is silly. I don't support farm subsidies either for the same reason.
Craig
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Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
Splitting the right will never result in a conservative government. On the other hand, when you vote for the CPC, and get Liberal budgets, you are also not geting conservative government. So it appears that we are in a situation where a conservative government is a practical impossibility.


What you are saying is that the Liberal Party isn't the "natural governing party" but liberalism is the natural governing ideology.
Nicklan





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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig i am afraid that Canada's competion will not stick to just the industries that you choose. And the world bank will continue to fund all industries in our competitor nations as well as each of their governments. Our government will also continue to be one of the largest backers of the world bank as is the USA. Actuly funding our compertiters with our money already !
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