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winchry





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 115
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Location: Sarnia, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject: NASA Shooting Reply with quote

2 major shootings in the USA in less then a week... does anyone get the idea yet? GUN LAWS! Why do people need handguns... or automatic weapons... you cant shoot up a school, or an office with a rifle(reload time).. if no american had a gun they wouldnt need the right to defend themselves with their guns.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you have proposed an excellent way to disarm the law abiding. Now how do you propose to disarm criminals? Bear in mind that criminals tend to ignore laws and such, so new laws or "rules" will probably not help any plan to disarm criminals.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

That article is a dose of reality.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
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votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: NASA Shooting Reply with quote

winchry wrote:
2 major shootings in the USA in less then a week...


you didn't mention that it had been several years since the last... :roll: yet Canada, with its stringent gun laws has seen several major shootings in the same timeframe.

Oh... and this
winchry





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 115
Reputation: 16.5Reputation: 16.5
Location: Sarnia, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh... and this


http://www.pantagraph.com/arti.....021579.txt
www.suntimes.com/news/metro/35.....21.article
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/f.....amp;coll=1

Yes, there are shootings in Toronto, and yes there are a lot of them... but when compared to shootings in the US i think were doing pretty good with our gun crimes right now.
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1092
Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1
votes: 14
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh
I don't have the figures on me, but I think its 28 people per day on average killed in the US due to guns (more than half of all murders).
Really what people need to understand is the V-Tech shooting only shocks us because so many people died in one location. Over a person an hour in the US gets killed by a gun......
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1092
Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1
votes: 14
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggie
Canada has had shootings because of AMERICAN guns.
If more American states had strict gun laws there would be less shootings in Canada.
Guns flow from areas with lax guns laws to areas with strict gun laws.
Even in American states (such as NY) where it is hard to buy a gun there are many guns from states where it is easy to buy a gun (like Virginia).
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That article I posted above, it provides a real world example of a place where they enacted mandatory gun ownership. There has not been a murder there for 25 years, the crime rate dropped from double the national average to well below, and their population has grown substantially.

Could someone provide a real world example of a place that has banned guns and gotten similar results? Because if you cannot, then aren't you arguing against the real world?

The article mentions a different town that banned guns at the same time. The crime rate in that town rose, and their population declined. Which place would you rather walk down the street at night?

The real world provides examples of gun ownership working to protect people. You guys argue against gun ownership. I don't think you have the best interests of people in mind.
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No your right. Our big plan is to ensure no one besides the criminals have guns. We really WANT more murders. Its our plan, you see us who favour getting rid of guns really thrive on human misery (but please do not tell anyone, the others will be really mad).
;)

America has nearly 1 gun for every person. If making every person have a gun would lower the crime rate why are there so many gun murders in the US?
Per capita could you please show me a country that has more gun murders than the US?
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Biggie
Canada has had shootings because of AMERICAN guns.
If more American states had strict gun laws there would be less shootings in Canada.
Guns flow from areas with lax guns laws to areas with strict gun laws.
Even in American states (such as NY) where it is hard to buy a gun there are many guns from states where it is easy to buy a gun (like Virginia).


Oh yes, it's americans' faults that Canadians are obtaining guns and killing other Canadians...

:roll:

It's always those americans..
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
No your right. Our big plan is to ensure no one besides the criminals have guns. We really WANT more murders. Its our plan, you see us who favour getting rid of guns really thrive on human misery (but please do not tell anyone, the others will be really mad).
;)

America has nearly 1 gun for every person. If making every person have a gun would lower the crime rate why are there so many gun murders in the US?
Per capita could you please show me a country that has more gun murders than the US?


Sure:

Brazil, South Africa LINK


Out of every million people:

Brazil: 213

-- South Africa: 126

-- United States: 41

-- Canada: 5.1

-- England and Wales: 0.3

-- Japan: 0.3

Wikipedia on Brazil
Quote:
"
All firearms in Brazil are required to be registered with the state. The minimum age for ownership is 25 and it is generally illegal to carry a gun outside a residence. The total number of firearms in Brazil is thought to be around 17 million.

Over 38,000 people die each year due to gun-related injuries nationwide. The vast majority of the crimes is committed with illegally possessed guns; this may have helped the people decide how to vote in the referendum (see below).
"


Population of Brazil
2005 - 183,886,761

US by your estimation = 1 gun/person
Brazil = .09 gun/person

hmmm
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1092
Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1
votes: 14
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not Americans fault, its economics, if someone can buy a gun in one state and drive to another state and sell it for more than x2 what they paid some people will do it.

AAAAWWW Brazil and South Africa, two countries with large numbers of cheap guns easily aviable AND they have alot of gun deaths, certainly proves me wrong. ;)
Edit: The areas which have the most deaths (ie Rio) also have the most and cheapest guns.
winchry





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 115
Reputation: 16.5Reputation: 16.5
Location: Sarnia, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
FascistLibertarian wrote:
No your right. Our big plan is to ensure no one besides the criminals have guns. We really WANT more murders. Its our plan, you see us who favour getting rid of guns really thrive on human misery (but please do not tell anyone, the others will be really mad).
;)

America has nearly 1 gun for every person. If making every person have a gun would lower the crime rate why are there so many gun murders in the US?
Per capita could you please show me a country that has more gun murders than the US?


Sure:

Brazil, South Africa LINK


Out of every million people:

Brazil: 213

-- South Africa: 126

-- United States: 41

-- Canada: 5.1

-- England and Wales: 0.3

-- Japan: 0.3

Wikipedia on Brazil
Quote:
"
All firearms in Brazil are required to be registered with the state. The minimum age for ownership is 25 and it is generally illegal to carry a gun outside a residence. The total number of firearms in Brazil is thought to be around 17 million.

Over 38,000 people die each year due to gun-related injuries nationwide. The vast majority of the crimes is committed with illegally possessed guns; this may have helped the people decide how to vote in the referendum (see below).
"


Population of Brazil
2005 - 183,886,761

US by your estimation = 1 gun/person
Brazil = .09 gun/person

hmmm


Clearly the Brazil stats are taken out of context. Brazil is a developing country, with a government that maintains little control. Drugs are a major problem.. and with drugs come illegal guns... because of the amount of the country that is not under complete governement control the stats are misleading. THeir guns laws are largely useless. THis is a country where they can't even stop illegal cutting of the rainforest.. how do you think they can control who gets guns?
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FascistLibertarian wrote:
Its not Americans fault, its economics, if someone can buy a gun in one state and drive to another state and sell it for more than x2 what they paid some people will do it.

AAAAWWW Brazil and South Africa, two countries with large numbers of cheap guns easily aviable AND they have alot of gun deaths, certainly proves me wrong. ;)
Edit: The areas which have the most deaths (ie Rio) also have the most and cheapest guns.


obviously you chose to overlook this part of what I said:

Quote:

Population of Brazil
2005 - 183,886,761

US by your estimation = 1 gun/person
Brazil = .09 gun/person
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Clearly the Brazil stats are taken out of context. Brazil is a developing country, with a government that maintains little control. Drugs are a major problem.. and with drugs come illegal guns... because of the amount of the country that is not under complete governement control the stats are misleading. THeir guns laws are largely useless. THis is a country where they can't even stop illegal cutting of the rainforest.. how do you think they can control who gets guns?


I think the fact that the US has a strong government and laws (and are a developed nation) would probably be good reason why they have fewer gun-related deaths, despite having 10 times the number of guns per capita...

all you've proved with your statement is that the availability of guns has nothing to do with the use of them in criminal acts.. Other circumstances contribute a great deal more.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me ask you this:

What would you say to 82 year old Venus Ramey
?
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