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FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1092
Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1Reputation: 30.1
votes: 14
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didnt overlook it. I just think 10% of the population havin guns is alot, it is alot less than the US but it is still way to high. I just think that being able to buy guns cheaply (as you can in Brazil) will make the murder rate go up. Besides if most countries with higher gun death rates are developing. The US is an industralized country.

If you disagree with a gun buyback program thats fine, really all we need to do is massively restrict the amount of ammo, then the problem will take care of itself........
If the ammo and guns had not been made in the first place we would not have this problem. But of course when someone is killed in Toronto with an illegal gun there is NO LINK between the gun makers, the sellers, the legal buyers, the illegal trafficers... It is 100% on the person who shot the gun and holding the others responsible makes NO SENSE.......
:twisted:
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I didnt overlook it. I just think 10% of the population havin guns is alot, it is alot less than the US but it is still way to high...


To turn that around on you, it's estimated that 1 in 3 (ie. 33%) of Canadian households own at least one firearm. On those terms we are second in private firearms ownership only to the United States, where an estimated 50% of households own firearms. These figures exlude situations like in Switzerland, where there is at least one government-issue automatic weapon in every home.

However, both Canada and Switzerland have vastly lower firearms homicide rates the the US and many other countries - clearly some other factors are at work here.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also got this, resurrected from an older thread on the forums (where the firearms issue was discussed at length):

Quote:
H. Taylor Buckner, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Sociology Concordia University, Montreal, says it best:

Quote:
"Let's take as the registration goal an estimated 8 million firearms [Ed. Note - more reliable estimates are much higher] in Canada. In any given year there are just over 4,000 misuses - just under 3,000 firearms lost or stolen (which would include the legal arms used in criminal acts), 1100 suicides, just under 250 homicides and about 60 fatal accidents. Taken together this means that 1/20th of 1% of the firearms are misused, 99.95% are not of interest to the legal system. Registering the 99.95% which are of no interest, to find the 0.05%, is like trying to find a needle in a haystack by registering every piece of hay."


I encourage you to follow the link to the old thread - it was a very thorough discussion.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again I say, I provided a real world example of a town that made gun ownership mandatory. Crime went down, substantially. You guys have completely ignored my question.

So far, as I see it, we have real world evidence vs. thought experiments.

Predictions of gunfights to settle common disputes did not come true. Predictions of more deaths proved misguided. Where are the real world facts to back up your anti-gun positions?
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is safe to say, that when the right people have guns, that is law abiding citizens, widespread gun ownership is very positive. Therefore I think it is safe to conclude that any plan that will remove guns from the hands of the law abiding will have detrimental effects.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
I've also got this, resurrected from an older thread on the forums (where the firearms issue was discussed at length):

Quote:
H. Taylor Buckner, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Sociology Concordia University, Montreal, says it best:

Quote:
"Let's take as the registration goal an estimated 8 million firearms [Ed. Note - more reliable estimates are much higher] in Canada. In any given year there are just over 4,000 misuses - just under 3,000 firearms lost or stolen (which would include the legal arms used in criminal acts), 1100 suicides, just under 250 homicides and about 60 fatal accidents. Taken together this means that 1/20th of 1% of the firearms are misused, 99.95% are not of interest to the legal system. Registering the 99.95% which are of no interest, to find the 0.05%, is like trying to find a needle in a haystack by registering every piece of hay."


I encourage you to follow the link to the old thread - it was a very thorough discussion.


FL and Winchry - I think you should pay special attention to the position I took on that particular discussion.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to do this guys, but we have two discussions that have basically turned into the same discussion; and references between them are getting difficult to follow. We've diverted away from the NASA shootings to gun control in general... and we were discussing this on the other post anyhow.

So I'm going to lock this one... please continue discussion over at The post about the VT masacre

http://www.bloggingtories.ca/f.....php?t=3853
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