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Duck Tory





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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject: Thoughs on the Virgina Tech Tragedy{Masscare} Reply with quote

I want to say this out loud and i want to get it off my chest, When i first heard i was thinking it was another shooting in the USA which i left to do my errands. When i arrive back I turned on the channel and saw it rose to 32. To me I share deep sadness for what had happen, it's upsetting that someone from my region{Asia} Would do such a thing, but when they told on Foxnews this person was full of hate it never surprise me of the Old world Xenophobia certain People have, let me say that to all American Conservatives I extend my hand of hope to your nation and i grief with you as if it was my own school.

32 people died tragically 30 of them were young people in the prime of their lives 2 Professors gun down one a Holocaust survivor did what he can to save his students died. the names and faces like 9/11 is with me forever. And from what i know Americans while my week stay in Orange County and Maine is you take care of your own. My thoughs and prayers go to Virgnia Tech and the victims. All those students hell i just wanna hop on a plane and just hug each and everyone of them.
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is horrible. My heart goes out to everyone involved (besides the killer).
A Canadian prof was apparently killed as well.
There is 0 reason anyone beside the police or military need handguns or automatic weapons.
He was Korean but from what I understand he spent the majority of his life in America. Asia has much lower crime rates in general than America.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is only one person to blame. Society is not at fault, gun manufacturers are not at fault. gun control freaks are not at fault, the NRA is not at fault.

What really gets me is how people are so irrationally afraid of guns. Way more people die every year in auto accidents, but you never see anyone suing Ford, or saying cars should be banned. It is like people actually believe that guns can grow little gun legs and point themselves at people, and shoot them, and that they have independent will.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's a sad tragedy
jw





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is sad and sick in away. We already have most of the clues needed to stop the majority of such things. We have the technical ability to stop most of these killings. What we do not have is the willpower to stop the killings.

Six out of seven mass killings are by younger-loner-males. That's the same group which gives us most of our great scientific and cultural breakthroughs. It is an important group. Sadly though, it is also a male group and no one wants to spend any money or time on males.

There are always a great many clues which show that a person has high odds of becoming violent. Searching those clues out is well within our technical ability. Doing something with that information is not within our willpower.

We need to end the process of shaming and blaming males who have been hurt as almost all of the killers will have been badly hurt and then both ignored and mocked. Just ending our pro-bullying culture would be a big step forward. The big-step though is ending the contempt for any male who needs help.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate the cult of victimhood. The guy did it, no one else has any share of the blame whatsoever. There are no mitigating circumstances, I just cannot stand talk of that kind of stuff. It is the same path that led Canada to the Young Offenders Act, and the myriad travesties of justice that has produced over the years. It is the same thinking that gives out house arrest to rapists and pedophiles; since it is not their fault the way they are, they do not deserve all that harsh jail time, right?
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course the killer is to blame. No one is suggesting otherwise. Him having access to guns just made the murders that much easier, esp on a large scale. The killer is to blame but without guns the body count would be alot lower.

Countries which ban handguns have lower murder rates.
Over half of all murders in the US involve guns, nothing else even goes over 20% (knives are the next highest).
Edit: US Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Report 1996

The US has +10,000 handgun murders a year (doesnt need citing)

In the US people with guns in their house are 2.7 times as likely to be murdered (usually by someone they know) than those without guns
Edit: Kellermann 1993 Gun ownership as a risk factor for homocide in the home. New England Journal of Medicine 329, 198401991 p347
ibid 1997 Comment: gunsmoke- changing public attitudes towards smoking and firearms. American Journal of Public Health, 87, 910-912 p345

Canada has less murders than the US per capita and our murders using guns is about 25% of all murders (slightly more people are killed with knives, slightly less with blunt objects).
Edit: Statisitcs Canada Iniform Crime Report 1996

Draw your own conclusions.


Last edited by FascistLibertarian on Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I notice you don't post any links to back up your "facts". Since I have done research on the subject, I know that what you are saying is not true. In the UK, gun crimes went up once they disarmed the populace. Same thing happened in Australia. Disarming the law abiding population simply makes them easier targets for the criminal population. There is no point arguing about it though, you will never accept anything I say on the subject, and I believe your reasoning on it to be flawed.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some court cases that show that the individual is not entitled to police protection.

http://hematite.com/dragon/policeprot.html

A lot of people have tried to sue police departments for not protecting them from victimization. All of them have failed. It will not change anyone's mind, but there it is.

PS.
Quote:
Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: ``For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers.'' The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a ``fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.'' Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981).
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, in summary I say, that it is up to the individual to protect him or herself. Since hand guns are basically illegal, how does one do that while obeying the law?

Quote:
Consider the case of Linda Riss, in which a young woman telephoned the police and begged for help because her ex-boyfriend had repeatedly threatened "If I can't have you no one else will have you, and when I get through with you, no-one else will want you." The day after she had pleaded for police protection, the ex-boyfriend threw lye in her face, blinding her in one eye, severely damaging the other, and permanently scarring her features. "What makes the City's position particularly difficult to understand," wrote a dissenting opinion in her tort suit against the City, "is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus, by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of New York which now denies all responsibility to her." Riss v. New York, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. 1968).
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just did a search of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The right to police protection is not listed there, so I assume that since we share common legal history with the US (British common law), that it is, in the end, up to the individual. Of course, since we are disarmed, that is going to be difficult. But hey, everyone knows less guns means less crime, so we should all be able to just close our eyes and be OK.
kwlafayette





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the story of a different shooting spree at a different Virgina school.

http://freestudents.blogspot.c.....tance.html
FascistLibertarian





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well iv edited my post to cite my stats, not that I think it will change your position as you will never accept anything I say on the subject, and I believe your reasoning on it to be flawed. :)

Todays Toronto Star has some intresting "facts"
according to its coverage of the shootings
US has 250 million guns in civilian hands
US had 11,348 gun homocides in 2001 vs 168 in Can 331 in German and 96 in the UK

2006 Japan had 53 total shootings (not killing), most linked to organized crime, this country heavily restricts guns.

Studies have shown (yes I can cite them if you wish) that most rapists use porn (Japan is an exception here with low rape rates and high violent porn rates) and a large amount of violence in Canada is linked to drinking.
Does that mean that rapists who look at porn or murders who drink are any less responsible, OF COURSE NOT.
Does it mean that restricting access to booze and porn would likely reduce the numbers of assults and rapes, OF COURSE IT DOES.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wondering, how does your world view explain the decrease in homicides in Florida after more liberal concealed carry laws were enacted? At the time the laws were being drafted, there was absolute hysteria form the gun control crowd, people saying tourists would be shot, there would be daily gun fights, none of which came to pass.
FascistLibertarian





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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wondering. How does your world view explain people not in the military or security services having any reason to have handguns or assult rifles?
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Thoughs on the Virgina Tech Tragedy{Masscare}

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