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Which libertarian position is most important to you?
Less Restrictions on Firearms Ownership
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Liberalization or Abolition of Drugs / Narcotics Laws
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
Reduced Taxes / Less Gov't Interference in Economy
69%
 69%  [ 18 ]
Less Gov't Interference in International Affairs
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Elimination or Reduction of the Welfare State
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
Total Elimination of the State as an Entity
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Allow Homosexual Unions, Unrestricted Abortion
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I disagree with all of the above. I have no libertarian leanings.
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 26

Author Message
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: What's Your Issue? Reply with quote

Though I'm not too libertarian overall, I do have the odd libertarian notion. I've noticed not just in general, but within this forum, that we have libertarians spanning the political spectrum from left to right and as partisan supporters of all 3 major parties.

Its likely that very few of us endorse all libertarian positions, however. What single libertatian idea is most important to you? Do you vote on the basis of this issue alone, or do you vote based on the party which most supports the largest total sum of your priorities? Finally, which libertarian notions are you opposed to?
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that I didn't leave options for all of the above or more than one - I didn't think that would be as interesting. Also, no doubt some who consider themselves libertarians will disagree with what I've listed as libertarian positions, but I think I'm safe in that.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad multiple selections were not allowed. End of the welfare state and reduced taxes seem to be the same thing.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The state exists as the apparatus of class oppression. It can only disappear in the course of a revolution that first takes power away from the dominant class and then develops a classless alternative. This is impossible in a system that tries to maintain or expand the control of the logic of capital. Likewise, many other subsidiary functions of the state that follow from its basic logic or historical development are extremely difficult to constrain without some expression of this basic class struggle.
Albertan Technophile





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 76
Reputation: 14.2
Location: guess :)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Less government in general. The less they interfere in a good citizens life, the better.
CC Scott





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 151
Reputation: 15.9Reputation: 15.9
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Hughes wrote:
The state exists as the apparatus of class oppression. It can only disappear in the course of a revolution that first takes power away from the dominant class and then develops a classless alternative. This is impossible in a system that tries to maintain or expand the control of the logic of capital. Likewise, many other subsidiary functions of the state that follow from its basic logic or historical development are extremely difficult to constrain without some expression of this basic class struggle.

Ah Marxism! Lalalalalal! I can't hear you! Lalalalala!
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ah Marxism! Lalalalalal! I can't hear you! Lalalalala!
I used to do the same thing.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now you're too busy playing with your hammer and sickle? 8)
McGuire





Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 369
Reputation: 20.2Reputation: 20.2
Location: Soviet Pictouwestistan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of the options totally fit me. Overall, I just want the gov't to leave me & everyone else the hell alone. So long as they aren't harming someone, people should be free to do as they please.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
Reputation: 73.4
votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The state exists as the apparatus of class oppression. It can only disappear in the course of a revolution that first takes power away from the dominant class and then develops a classless alternative.


Do you truly believe that a classless society is possible? I would hold that any organization of human society beyond two people requires some form of heirarchical power structure, whether status is based on material wealth, percieved wisdom, might, or some other quality. Even the family, the basic unit of any society, is heirarchical in nature.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do you truly believe that a classless society is possible? I would hold that any organization of human society beyond two people requires some form of heirarchical power structure, whether status is based on material wealth, percieved wisdom, might, or some other quality. Even the family, the basic unit of any society, is heirarchical in nature.
At its best, actually, the family/household can be seen as an attempt to withdraw from market relations to some degree, as the family was traditionally a place of self-provisioning and cooperation over competition. I also tend to think that there is a viral quality to change, and that the more people demand direct participation in decisions of production and consumption beyond as an atomistic consumer subordinate to capital then they will start to work in egalitarian changes that will by their own logic transform economic relations. The only way such changes would be consistent and successful over a long period of time was if they eliminate any independent capitalist or "coordinator" class, abolish the system of wage labour and therefore develop a classless society.
shavluk
Guest








PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes it is a Conservative site as 70 % here
were/are only thinking with their wallets

yes please take less money is my #1 priority
no one says
don't waste what i give you and /or use it so well that i don't have to keep giving it to you
greed is good but also short sighted
Blackstone





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 5
Reputation: 13
Location: Oceania

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The state seizes its revenues by force. That is greed.

Give back to individuals the freedom to decide what to do with the money they themselves earn. Then through reason and not force, have citizens spend on worthwhile causes.
shavluk
Guest








PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry but i am a firm believer in flat tax and have a complete plan for the whole system
drawn out over time by the very people who work to maintain and enforce the system.
i was one of them.

it does take a basic shift in the psyche of some of your thoughts re tax's to be shifted to freedom or human rights at the same level of importance.

you taxes and everyone else could be in the levels of 10% to 15% by doing 2 things
for starters. there are more but this would get the ball rolling

end drug prohibition by calling a cease fire and see if everyone does go out and do heroine

tax church's ,corporations and individuals all at the same rate, period
free to make as much as you want or not



i hope it doesn't have to be ended by the K-TEL artificial convict in a can you open it and as the victims of the drug-war escape they could open a can and no one would have to lose their job,,,we have one fully dress in value village suits for court rooms etc

the drug-war will come down to a CIVILWAR between the enlightened and the ignorant
which side do you want to be on?


Last edited by shavluk on Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take on the left wing of politics:

"Gimme every service for free, and dont make me pay any taxes"

Must be all that marijuana they're smoking ;)


Bird's don't fly too well with one broken wing ;)
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