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Which libertarian position is most important to you?
Less Restrictions on Firearms Ownership
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Liberalization or Abolition of Drugs / Narcotics Laws
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
Reduced Taxes / Less Gov't Interference in Economy
69%
 69%  [ 18 ]
Less Gov't Interference in International Affairs
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Elimination or Reduction of the Welfare State
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
Total Elimination of the State as an Entity
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Allow Homosexual Unions, Unrestricted Abortion
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
I disagree with all of the above. I have no libertarian leanings.
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 26

Author Message
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
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votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"the drug-war will come down to a CIVILWAR between the enlightened and the ignorant
which side do you want to be on?"


BAHAHAHAHAHA I think this is the funniest thing i've ever seen...

Good thing I'm enlightened ;)
shavluk
Guest








PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no you are mixing a few but like you said its only your take,,,,,

moving on to something of some relevance,,,,,


apparently smoking cannabis makes you smarter, maybe you could get it as a tax deduction as you may be classed disabled,,,just teasing
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44Reputation: 44
votes: 10
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hahaha...

thats almost worth a shot.
McGuire





Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 369
Reputation: 20.2Reputation: 20.2
Location: Soviet Pictouwestistan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blackstone wrote:
The state seizes its revenues by force. That is greed.

Give back to individuals the freedom to decide what to do with the money they themselves earn. Then through reason and not force, have citizens spend on worthwhile causes.


Amen to that. get rid of the income tax, reform the GST & bring in user fees to make up the loss of revenue.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Projected personal income tax revenues for 2006-07 are going to be about $115 billion at the federal level. GST will raise less than $30 billion gross. Assuming the only tax you wish to eliminate is the PIT, explain specifically where this lost revenue will be made up.

For example, if you intend user fees to make up $50 billion in lost revenue, let's imagine that it is on a set of a services common enough that there are 50 million instances of use requiring payment on average. Let's imagine that other instances and fees are held neutral as with the bureaucratic costs associated with new fees and collection. Let's also imagine that the fee is distributed between services in an optimal way. You would need the average user fee charged to be $1,000.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Hughes wrote:
Projected personal income tax revenues for 2006-07 are going to be about $115 billion at the federal level. GST will raise less than $30 billion gross. Assuming the only tax you wish to eliminate is the PIT, explain specifically where this lost revenue will be made up


I think he said user fees. But I'll take a stab at this...

1. Tax lottery winnings
2. Tax inheritence (you heard me correctly)
3. Increase gas taxes to European levels
4. Increase GST to 12%
5. Cut social programs by 10%
6. Implement user fees for medical care (increase efficiency and revenue)

I would NEVER accept 1 through 4 of this list without the elimination of income taxes.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said, "user fees" is a nonsensical reply.

Lottery winnings equal about a few billion annually. If you taxed them, not considering changes in behaviour away from gambling, you'd get maybe two billion. Maybe.

Applying a 17 percent tax to estates over $1,000,000 would raise about $3 billion a year, again probably without accepting any changes in behaviour.

Federal excise taxes on fuel raise about $5 billion annually. If you tripled revenue from this source, that is probably raise the price of gasoline by say 25 - 35 cents per liter or maybe more, you might be able to raise another $10 billion.

So you have $100 billion left to budget, assuming all of this is politically possible and economically feasible.

Increasing the GST to 12% might raise another $20 - $25 billion in revenue. Cutting "social programs" by 10% or a bit more might save at most like $5 - $10 billion, even with a broad mandate for cuts.

User fees for medical care do not help efficiency and could not raise a large amount of revenue.

I would say that even if you could push all that through you would have a very large hole left in your budget. There is a fantasy that many libertarians and conservatives entertain that taxes can be traded for one another with relative ease. This is false.
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shavluk wrote:
moving on to something of some relevance


Hey i was busy and - i didn't get a chance to mention this IMPORTANT point to you in the 'federal election' thread before it was locked.

You had mentioned a "Mr. Popowich" along with a fraudulent smear in your last posting on that thread:

"...the cop...,, that because of his weak esteem,, that targeted me, bragged in court that he made thousands in over time trying to catch me and that i was a criminal master mind because he couldn't get me for so long,,,i said "did it ever occur to you that the reason you were unsuccessful may be that i wasn't actually doing anything"".his name was john Popowich and while i was in jail he was charged for raping children in Martinsville , Sask. The guards in jail called me in and said they were disgusted as Popowich had beaten the charges because all the kids identified his brother as the perpetrator as he hadn't lost 50 lbs, taken off his glasses or shaved his beard, point being he looked like his brother used to and he walked.

they lightened my duties after that and i was moved to a halfway house
..."

So what a total load of crap - I would say that you have defamed this Mr. Popowich in your rant and thus I wanted to respond to it and you.

You must know - NOTHING HAPPENED in " Martinsville , Sask" - this has been well established - the children lied. Yes children and adults lie!

Here is an excerpt on this matter - from a respectable website:

"...Most of those charged in the case have had their reputations and finances ruined. Margaret Wente wrote: "Mr. Popowich was suspended from his job without pay. His daughter was beaten up in school, and relatives froze him out. He and his wife held garage sales and sold their possessions to raise money....Axworthy said on JUN-18 that the Province had decided to settle out of court rather than run the risk of losing at trial and paying out an even greater amount. He also promised that no one involved in prosecuting the Martensville case would lose their jobs."

"He [Axworthy] also promised that no one involved in prosecuting the Martensville case would lose their jobs."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_marte.htm

See this website too:

http://www.injusticebusters.co.....2006.shtml

Yes - that is the NDP way isn't it - never accept the proven malfeasances of their workers - even after all that mess induced on the lives of those so accused - "no one involved in prosecuting the Martensville case would lose their jobs" - great place this Saskatchewan with it's - "cheap auto insurance" - i.e.: cheap as in 'sleazy' - oh - but for a Conservative government in Saskatchewan!

So for whatever the reasons [i don't care] you smeared that fellow and - the truth should be told about that fact. Me thinks you need help with more than your grammar...

:roll:
anchorlink





Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 26
Reputation: 13.3

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I went with lower taxes/less government interference as well. The actual specific issue (it's provincial, sorry, but it applies to several provinces in one way or another) that really gets me going is the LCBO.
shavluk
Guest








PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
shavluk wrote:
moving on to something of some relevance


Hey i was busy and - i didn't get a chance to mention this IMPORTANT point to you in the 'federal election' thread before it was locked.

You had mentioned a "Mr. Popowich" along with a fraudulent smear in your last posting on that thread:

"...the cop...,, that because of his weak esteem,, that targeted me, bragged in court that he made thousands in over time trying to catch me and that i was a criminal master mind because he couldn't get me for so long,,,i said "did it ever occur to you that the reason you were unsuccessful may be that i wasn't actually doing anything"".his name was john Popowich and while i was in jail he was charged for raping children in Martinsville , Sask. The guards in jail called me in and said they were disgusted as Popowich had beaten the charges because all the kids identified his brother as the perpetrator as he hadn't lost 50 lbs, taken off his glasses or shaved his beard, point being he looked like his brother used to and he walked.

they lightened my duties after that and i was moved to a halfway house
..."

So what a total load of crap - I would say that you have defamed this Mr. Popowich in your rant and thus I wanted to respond to it and you.

You must know - NOTHING HAPPENED in " Martinsville , Sask" - this has been well established - the children lied. Yes children and adults lie!

Here is an excerpt on this matter - from a respectable website:

"...Most of those charged in the case have had their reputations and finances ruined. Margaret Wente wrote: "Mr. Popowich was suspended from his job without pay. His daughter was beaten up in school, and relatives froze him out. He and his wife held garage sales and sold their possessions to raise money....Axworthy said on JUN-18 that the Province had decided to settle out of court rather than run the risk of losing at trial and paying out an even greater amount. He also promised that no one involved in prosecuting the Martensville case would lose their jobs."

"He [Axworthy] also promised that no one involved in prosecuting the Martensville case would lose their jobs."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_marte.htm

See this website too:

http://www.injusticebusters.co.....2006.shtml

Yes - that is the NDP way isn't it - never accept the proven malfeasances of their workers - even after all that mess induced on the lives of those so accused - "no one involved in prosecuting the Martensville case would lose their jobs" - great place this Saskatchewan with it's - "cheap auto insurance" - i.e.: cheap as in 'sleazy' - oh - but for a Conservative government in Saskatchewan!

So for whatever the reasons [i don't care] you smeared that fellow and - the truth should be told about that fact. Me thinks you need help with more than your grammar...

:roll:



i told you why he got off,,,i also know cops outside of the corrupt ones,,still living where you are,,,maybe when you show them your implant they will tell you the real story and my grammar,,,well they don't teach that in jail,,,,next!!!
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shavluk wrote:
i told you why he got off,,,i also know cops outside of the corrupt ones,,still living where you are,,,maybe when you show them your implant they will tell you the real story and my grammar,,,well they don't teach that in jail,,,,next!!!


No you lied - he got off from the charge because - it was all a lie - just like you - you're a lie maker...anyhow - i don't wish to talk with you. see ya.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 6155
Reputation: 156.2Reputation: 156.2
votes: 28
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Donald Hughes wrote:
Projected personal income tax revenues for 2006-07 are going to be about $115 billion at the federal level. GST will raise less than $30 billion gross. Assuming the only tax you wish to eliminate is the PIT, explain specifically where this lost revenue will be made up


I think he said user fees. But I'll take a stab at this...

1. Tax lottery winnings
2. Tax inheritence (you heard me correctly)
3. Increase gas taxes to European levels
4. Increase GST to 12%
5. Cut social programs by 10%
6. Implement user fees for medical care (increase efficiency and revenue)

I would NEVER accept 1 through 4 of this list without the elimination of income taxes.

It does not make sense to tax inheritance. All that wealth built up by your father or whomever, tax was already paid on it when it was made. Taxing inheritance is double taxation, just like taxing dividends. In the dividends case, the corporation pays tax on its earnings, then the recipient of the dividend pays tax on the dividend. I don't think double taxation is fair, and it should be eliminated.
shavluk
Guest








PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don muntean wrote:
shavluk wrote:
i told you why he got off,,,i also know cops outside of the corrupt ones,,still living where you are,,,maybe when you show them your implant they will tell you the real story and my grammar,,,well they don't teach that in jail,,,,next!!!


No you lied - he got off from the charge because - it was all a lie - just like you - you're a lie maker...anyhow - i don't wish to talk with you. see ya.



Bhakta


this will be your only allowed put down as i am not one of these dove types and as i said what really happened,,,if you continue to call me a liar,,i will show you some other things someone in my position can do,,,i am a bailiff with strong ties to Saskatoon.
i would not dare me to cause you grief and you may have already brought some on from my many supporters,,i would suggest you just keep your obvious BS to you self. really i hope you don't and don't say i didn't warn you.



how about i use my friends at SGI for example, i actually have family that i think should take another look at your file,,,yes i think so as ,,I'm feeling i guess like you and as stupid it seems.

in fact as you are a bit strange anyway,,,just for my entertainment ,,i just sent out some emails that you will HEAR about,,,good luck.

i will retract what i have just done only for an apology but i can not stop what others are going to cause you after today,,,again you were warned.


tell popowich to call as i have all the names if he wants to sue anyone,,,be a good time to bring in the statements of some who were abused into not testifying eh
give him my address ,no problem
don muntean





Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2262
Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9Reputation: 34.9
votes: 8
Location: Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:31 pm    Post subject: ARE YA ESTRANGED FROM REALITY OR - JUST STRANGE? Reply with quote

[NOTE: I ask others here to please forgive me this off-topic reply in this thread]


shavluk wrote:
ii told you why he got off,,,i also know cops outside of the corrupt ones,,still living where you are,,,maybe when you show them your implant they will tell you the real story and my grammar,,,well they don't teach that in jail,,,,next!!

Bhakta

this will be your only allowed put down as i am not one of these dove types and as i said what really happened,,,if you continue to call me a liar,,i will show you some other things someone in my position can do,,,i am a bailiff with strong ties to Saskatoon.
i would not dare me to cause you grief and you may have already brought some on from my many supporters,,i would suggest you just keep your obvious BS to you self. really i hope you don't and don't say i didn't warn you.

how about i use my friends at SGI for example, i actually have family that i think should take another look at your file,,,yes i think so as ,,I'm feeling i guess like you and as stupid it seems.

in fact as you are a bit strange anyway,,,just for my entertainment ,,i just sent out some emails that you will HEAR about,,,good luck.

i will retract what i have just done only for an apology but i can not stop what others are going to cause you after today,,,again you were warned.

tell popowich to call as i have all the names if he wants to sue anyone,,,be a good time to bring in the statements of some who were abused into not testifying eh
give him my address ,no problem


Quote:

my grammar,,,well they don't teach that in jail....if you continue to call me a liar,,i will show you some other things someone in my position can do,,,i am a bailiff with strong ties to Saskatoon

Reply:

Wow - you went from "jail" to "bailiff" - wow - is that really impressive or what!?

I wonder - if you speak like you write - how does that affect your duties as a bailiff?

You're a clear case of someone 'lost' and - if you have any amount of brain matter - you will stop posting nonsense and making vain threats.

Why are you making such threats? Are you jealous that you weren't implanted - jealous that I'm not telling any lie in this connection?

You have friends at SGI - hahahahaha - whatever! [SGI has no friends :roll: ]

Of course - in the last seven years time they have failed to bring me [their victim] down - so - I'm not worried that any messages from 'the bewildered fringes' is going to help them...

SGI and their NDP 'enablers' are the ones who are in acute dereliction while doing their nonsense!

The fact is - I have GOD and the truth - what do they have - their own false ego and lies...

Quote:

i will retract what i have just done only for an apology but i can not stop what others are going to cause you after today,,,again you were warned....i would not dare me to cause you grief and you may have already brought some on from my many supporters,,i would suggest you just keep your obvious BS to you self. really i hope you don't and don't say i didn't warn you.

Reply:

I have nothing to be sorry about and I'm not going to give any "apology" - you on the otherhand do owe me one - but I don't need it. You should grow up a little [alot really] before going into online discussions!

Quote:

i actually have family that i think should take another look at your file,,,yes i think so as ,,I'm feeling i guess like you and as stupid it seems...in fact as you are a bit strange anyway,,,just for my entertainment ,,i just sent out some emails that you will HEAR about,,,good luck.

Reply:

I'm a bit strange you say? Why is that? Again such a threat - "family that i think should take another look at your file" - is such a joke!

If you could do something as stupid as you claim to have done - do know that you've left a trail by posting this [it's been copied] threat?

Not that I believe one word you write but - I'll say it - bring SGI on!

If you knew anything about this situation with SGI you would know 'why' I don't care - during this 'contention' with them they have tried to do all sorts of nasty's to me over the years and - three of their head-office senior goons lost their decades long positions [in 2004] and - the authorities aren't done yet!

Quote:

i also know cops outside of the corrupt ones,,still living where you are,,,maybe when you show them your implant they will tell you the real story

Reply:

So what is "the real story" about the implant - please enlighten us!? [of course i'm not interested in any further exchanges with you] Do ask youself - how is the protest website www.dental-spy-implants.blog.ca still online - after 511 days? Do you think the offenders haven't tried in vain to have it taken offline? Think about it!

The sober-mined in our world can see this issue with the balance-of-probability - see that I've proven my claims - clearly you are blinded by delusions and - you cannot really 'see' the X-ray and any other clear evidences recorded on my protest website so - what can I do?

At least it's nice to know that the average person isn't lost in these shadows - which you are. I intend no offense here when I suggest that you get some help for your obvious mental health issues - if only by using the internet to do real research on the issues of our world...and do try to become serious about these issues - like CRFID surveillance.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can someone please remove the comma key from shavluk's keyboard?

Seriously, make an effort to use proper grammer.
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