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CC Scott





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 151
Reputation: 15.9Reputation: 15.9
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: The Montreal Rampage Reply with quote

And so it begins. Not even 24 hours has gone by and gun registry defenders are already clamouring to use the rampage in Montreal as a reason why we need gun control.

The first one I saw: Dan Matheson on CTV Newsnet blame long-guns for much of the bloodshed in gun crimes. He was interviewing a police expert and tried to get his guest to concede to his point and say that we need strict gun control. The expert of course didn't bite, but instead lauded some of the measures that the Conservative government is going to try to implement with respect to crime and gun crimes.

What's your opinion on the rampage, the media coverage of it, and of its ramifications?
CC Scott





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 151
Reputation: 15.9Reputation: 15.9
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just heard Layton bring up the issue.
James





Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 2
Reputation: 12.5
Location: Montreal, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ironically (I live in Montreal) the host of a local radio station was lambasting gun control because of this shooting. Saying that it was proof gun control didn't work. Just goes to show any event will be politicised these days, each drawing completely opposite conclusions from the same events.

In the office we were pretty much glued to the TV/streaming radio this afternoon, several people had friends/family that go the school, fortunately all are ok. I've spent a lot of time in that area of the city and know it fairly well, it's very vibrant and normally a great place to be.

One thing apparent from the local coverage is that the police and emergency services moved very fast (The polytechnique massacre taught montreal some hard lessons). Another thing is that some people saw him walking down the street before the shooting and phoned police to inform them someone was heading towards the school with a weapon. This meant that police arrived at the front door of the school just as he began to shoot outside. In one interview a girl told how this saved her life. She was carrying a wounded person and he aimed at them... Just as the police arrived and distracted him.

I feel that "best practises" are the best defence to these events, well trained and drilled responders and well rehearsed emergency plans. A metal detector would not have helped as the shooting started outside. Other than that you'd have to create a police state with armed officers in every class and every corner to have 100% coverage, but the ensuing shoot outs would probably kill just as many people. Preventing these events in a free society is a very difficult question...

- James
Craig
Site Admin




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good thing we have the gun registry to protect us.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defending the gun registry in this instance seems a bit odd [in general, not the obvious sarcastic comments above] unless you are willing to go further with it, but the cost of doing so is probably far outstripped by the benefits. The idea that wider gun ownership would prevent periodic crimes like this is pretty dumb, though, too. Also the more Armageddon-like defences of gun ownership seem exaggerated.

Harper has called the shooter "cowardly." I don't really buy that either. Crazy, stupid, unjustly angry, confused... but cowardly? Wading into a crowd with guns blazing during a suicide-by-cop may be many things, but (a la Stanhope) "it takes a little ice in the veins."
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
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votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I feel that "best practises" are the best defence to these events, well trained and drilled responders and well rehearsed emergency plans. A metal detector would not have helped as the shooting started outside. Other than that you'd have to create a police state with armed officers in every class and every corner to have 100% coverage, but the ensuing shoot outs would probably kill just as many people. Preventing these events in a free society is a very difficult question...


Agreed on the best practices approach, and in this particular case, a metal detector wasn't useful. Until we know a lot more about what happened, specifically the exact weapons used and the details of the police and school response, I think its a bit early for armchair quarterbacking...
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
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votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The idea that wider gun ownership would prevent periodic crimes like this is pretty dumb, though, too.


Please explain why - I'm sure there's many here who would disagree with that assertion.
Donald Hughes





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 166
Reputation: 16.2Reputation: 16.2
Location: Libertarian socialism

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be an expert(s) with a firearm at the scene within minutes if not seconds. Any accelerated end to this event would have depended on the unlikely proposition of a very high proportion of students being armed with loaded and ready restricted weapons (handguns) that they were prepared to use and did so effectively against the attacker. That's a video game like fantasy in itself, let alone the simple dangers (and wasted time and resources) of having a high proportion of younger students being armed on campus.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually against the long gun registry, I think it is stupid and useless. I grew up on a farm and learning how to use long guns started at a very early age. Its not easy to conceal a long gun. We need long guns in rural Canada to keep the wolves, bears and coyotes out of our yards. Criminals are not going to register a weapon anyway. The registry was just another way for the government to hassle people. I even think that people should be allowed to have a hand gun to protect their home and property from invaders. A gun is merely a tool, it is the people weilding them that may or may not be dangerous. That said, I am very opposed to the idea that any person except a police officer should be allowed to carry a weapon when they leave their own property. People walking around strapped is just a recipe for more people to get shot when a punch in the face would suffice. A lot more people would die, in fits of rage. At least if you are mad enough to shoot someone, having to go home and get your gun, then come back to find them may give you enough time to cool down.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes me laugh actually that some of you people think that gun ownership is a right, but plant ownership is not.
CC Scott





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 151
Reputation: 15.9Reputation: 15.9
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrGreenthumb wrote:
It makes me laugh actually that some of you people think that gun ownership is a right, but plant ownership is not.

What??? Last time I checked no one is looking to take people's plants away from them or make them register them.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cannabis is a plant. Never read a story about plant seizures? If you are a liscenced meduser you in fact DO have to register them.
CC Scott





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 151
Reputation: 15.9Reputation: 15.9
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I didn't realize that you're a pothead. My bad.

Last edited by CC Scott on Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total
Stephen





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep it on topic, please.
CC Scott





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 151
Reputation: 15.9Reputation: 15.9
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen wrote:
Keep it on topic, please.

Will do.
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The Montreal Rampage

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