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Assuming there was a leadership convention, would you vote for an Atheist to lead the Conservative Party?
Yes
25%
 25%  [ 12 ]
No
19%
 19%  [ 9 ]
I vote for policy, not religion
55%
 55%  [ 26 ]
Total Votes : 47

Author Message
Craig
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Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
If you want to preach the ideals of intollerance, that's your choice - but you're being just as bad as any militant atheist.


He isn't the intolerant one here. This statement is inflamatory...

"If you want to preach the ideals of intollerance"
cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 334
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This little discussion was supposed to be a harmless debate on the idea of having an atheist lead the conservatives...it seems to have broken down a bit...

Let's face it...religion is intolerant...it always favors one group over another...usually believers over non-believers...biggie's statement is true...it's not an attack on religion...it's the truth...

erl
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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votes: 36

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cerl7011 wrote:
Let's face it...religion is intolerant...it always favors one group over another...usually believers over non-believers...


BS. Religion brings more harmony and good to the world then bad.

Quote:
biggie's statement is true...it's not an attack on religion...it's the truth...


It's an attack on religious people and it is intolerant. I have yet to see any religious person in this thread attack anyone for not being a believer. The only hate I see here is from people like you attacking religion and those who follow it.
cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 334
Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
cerl7011 wrote:
Let's face it...religion is intolerant...it always favors one group over another...usually believers over non-believers...


BS. Religion brings more harmony and good to the world then bad.


Let's remember that more people have died in the name of religion then for anything else...

I remember a line from "Jon Stewart's America (The Book)"...and don't worry...I've looked this up..."More people have died in the name of Jesus then for anyone else...even Hitler!"

erl
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
cerl7011 wrote:
Let's face it...religion is intolerant...it always favors one group over another...usually believers over non-believers...


BS. Religion brings more harmony and good to the world then bad.

Quote:
biggie's statement is true...it's not an attack on religion...it's the truth...


It's an attack on religious people and it is intolerant. I have yet to see any religious person in this thread attack anyone for not being a believer. The only hate I see here is from people like you attacking religion and those who follow it.



Quote:
To say that there is not reason for our existance is a cop out and doesn't make much sense.


Not once have I attacked religious people; perhaps if people were willing to discuss the topic instead of becoming offended at the drop of a hat, this discussion would be going better.

My entire point through all of this has been that the discussion in itself is completely futile and tends to bring out the worst in both sides.

You will note that I have been critical of both sides. Indeed, you began the inflamatory language by suggesting that my entire belief system is a cop out. If I had said that about yours or anyone else, you would be up in arms - but frankly your perceptions about my belief system are of no concern to me. I will continue to ask questions, seek answers, and I won't be putting my stamp on either side until I am damn sure that it's the right side.

As for religion doing good or bad - it does both, and likely equal amounts of each... like almost anything else in our existence
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
Indeed, you began the inflamatory language by suggesting that my entire belief system is a cop out.


Bullshit biggie. I didn't suggest that your "entire belief system is a cop out". I'm so sick of this exaggeration and hyperbole!!

You said that "maybe we are just here and there is no reason for it". I said THAT was a copout. You were SPECULATING. I don't think that represents your "entire belief system". If it does perhaps you could found the "Church of Shit Happens". Since when can't we be critical of statements people make? Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings I guess.

:roll:
cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 334
Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6Reputation: 26.6

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
biggie wrote:
Indeed, you began the inflamatory language by suggesting that my entire belief system is a cop out.


Bullshit biggie. I didn't suggest that your "entire belief system is a cop out". I'm so sick of this exaggeration and hyperbole!!

You said that "maybe we are just here and there is no reason for it". I said THAT was a copout. You were SPECULATING. I don't think that represents your "entire belief system". If it does perhaps you could found the "Church of Shit Happens". Since when can't we be critical of statements people make? Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings I guess.

:roll:


Umm...I think you did actually...you said that to say there is no reason for our existance is a cop out...that's biggie's belief system...and you called it a cop out...

erl
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cerl7011 wrote:
Craig wrote:
biggie wrote:
Indeed, you began the inflamatory language by suggesting that my entire belief system is a cop out.


Bullshit biggie. I didn't suggest that your "entire belief system is a cop out". I'm so sick of this exaggeration and hyperbole!!

You said that "maybe we are just here and there is no reason for it". I said THAT was a copout. You were SPECULATING. I don't think that represents your "entire belief system". If it does perhaps you could found the "Church of Shit Happens". Since when can't we be critical of statements people make? Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings I guess.

:roll:


Umm...I think you did actually...you said that to say there is no reason for our existance is a cop out...that's biggie's belief system...and you called it a cop out...

erl


Clearly you are too lazy to actually LOOK at what he said...

Quote:
I question the validity of the question "why are we here?"...

I can see why people would like to answer that question, but i'm not certain that that question is relevant. There could easilly be no reason for our existence..


Doesn't sound like his "entire belief system to me". He is speculating that there "could easily be no reason for our existence". He states "I'm not certain that the question is relevant". If it was his belief system he would be certain.

Next time you feel like chirping in with a useless contribution maybe you could be bothered to find out what was actually said.

Oh, and for the record biggie, I didn't start the inflammatory statements as you inaccurately contend. The inflammatory statements started on page one when an atheist said this...

Quote:
I'd rather someone who bases their views on rational discourse than on inane fiction.


I didn't join this discussion until page 8. Any other inaccurate accussations you want to throw out there. Funny how none of your atheists feigned outrage that he didn't respect religious views. Now you are all pretending to be hurt because I attacked a suggestion from one of your own.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're getting far too angry about this ridiculous topic.

and I don't think you're setting a very good example for the other people on these forums. You obviously want to encourage civil discourse... but this isn't making the cut.

I'm done with this discussion, its a waste of my time and quite frankly i'm a little sickened by your attitude.
cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 334
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig wrote:
Next time you feel like chirping in with a useless contribution maybe you could be bothered to find out what was actually said.


Ouch...so that's what you think of my contributions...thanks...I think this has gotten out of hand now and I'm beginning to regret starting this discussion...I really don't think anyone should be acting and talking the way you are now...it's actually sickening...

erl
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie wrote:
I'm done with this discussion, its a waste of my time and quite frankly i'm a little sickened by your attitude.


Selective outrage. Countless people attack religion in this thread and you turn your head the other way. I call one of your opinions a "copout" and you get "sickened" by my attitude.

Consistency is the hallmark of a moderator. You need to work on it.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cerl7011 wrote:
Ouch...so that's what you think of my contributions


Nope. That is what I think of that contribution in particular. Don't be such a drama queen.
mrsocko





Joined: 29 Oct 2006
Posts: 2463
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votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cerl7011 wrote:
Quote:
I remember a line from "Jon Stewart's America (The Book)"...and don't worry...I've looked this up..."More people have died in the name of Jesus then for anyone else...even Hitler!"


I looked up some facts online and I quote.
Quote:
A popular urban legend that I've often heard is that religion has killed more people than anything else, so the world would be a lot more peaceful place were it not for religion. The top three largest examples are thought to be the Crusades of the Middle Ages, the Spanish Inquisition, and the burning of witches. Scholars estimate that the Crusades of the middle ages cost from 58,000 to 133,000 lives. The most realistic figure for the Spanish Inquisition puts the total killed from AD1480 to AD1808 at up to 31,912. Finally, records indicate that the number of witches killed may be over 30,000. Some argue that records don't tell everything and suggest that maybe even 100,000 were killed. These three events, totaling over 264,000 killed, are thought to be the largest atrocities perpetrated by one or another form of Christendom.


Then compare these to atheism.
Quote:
the total number killed in all of human history is estimated to be about 284,638,000. Of that number, 151,491,000 were killed during the past 100 years. The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic Communism with a total of 110,000,000 over 1/3 of all people ever killed! If we add to that number just two other regimes where religion of any sort was strongly discouraged, Nazi Germany and Nationalist China, the number rises to 141,160,000. Almost 50% of all the killings in human history were committed in the past 100 years by regimes that either actively promoted atheism or strongly discouraged religion. We have not considered the over one billion abortions, where Christianity seems to be particularly unwelcome. When the murders of history are tallied up, it is very clear that atheism is the most dangerous philosophy ever embraced by humanity. The most effective restraint on mankind's inherently evil tendencies is faith in God through Jesus Christ, a faith that actually follows the teachings and commands of Jesus Christ as a daily way of life.


The link
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdL.....yAthsm.htm

Next time you want to quote a comedian to back up your bullshit post about how Christianity is evil try Laurel and Hardy. They might get their facts straight.
mrsocko





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Posts: 2463
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votes: 8
Location: Southwestern Ontario

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggie wrote
Quote:
You're getting far too angry about this ridiculous topic.


It's not a ridiculous topic. It speaks to how the CPC or people who support the CPC respect or direspect religious people.

Quote:
Not once have I attacked religious people; perhaps if people were willing to discuss the topic instead of becoming offended at the drop of a hat, this discussion would be going better.


Calling me intolerant when I felt I have said nothing intolerant is something I considered an attack. But If I was insensitive to your belief system I apoligize. I looked up the definition of agnostic.

Quote:
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism


If your belief is that it is impossible to know God we can agree to disagree. You have always been a fair person and I think this thread just got out of a little out of hand.

What do they say about never arguing about Religion or Politics. I guess we proved that point on religion anyway.


Last edited by mrsocko on Mon May 21, 2007 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
cerl7011





Joined: 22 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrsocko wrote:
The link
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdL.....yAthsm.htm

Next time you want to quote a comedian to back up your bullshit post about how Christianity is evil try Laurel and Hardy. They might get their facts straight.


Ahhahahahahaha!...you can't be serious...you expected a religious website to say be things about religion?...can you please find your facts from a less bias place.

And can we keep the name calling and insults to...well, can we just stop them. We are supposed to be mature and intelligent individuals. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we should harrass each other. The only people we should be making fun of here are those crazy socialists... :)

erl
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