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kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Ice age Reply with quote

Someone on here said something that got me thinking the other day. They mentioned that the earth is currently in an ice age. "What?" I said to myself, that did not make any sense. So I went and did a little research. I started at Wiki, followed the source links and did some reading, and sure enough, the earth is currently in the grip of an ice age.

The history of the earth, from what scientists guess, is long periods where the entire earth is tropical or semi-tropical, and the average temperature is warmer than now, punctuated by infrequent ice ages. Basically, if there is at least one polar ice cap, the earth is in an ice age.

The period we live in now is an interglacial period, where solar forcing, orbital forcing, and atmospheric composition combine to lessen the effects of the ice age, and the glaciers recede. Note that we are still in an ice age, the ice age is not ending because the ice is currently melting, we are simply going through an inter-glacial cycle. The current ice age started 40 million years ago, and there have been many glacial, inter-glacial cycles in the ensuing time.

This was pretty surprising to me. The only thing strong enough to start or end an ice age is the position of the continents. All other factors, Solar output, orbital forcing, and atmospheric forcing, are not strong enough even combined to start or end an ice age.

So that really got me thinking on what all the current climate hoopla really means. Orbital forcing models predict that the current inter-glacial will continue for some tens of thousands of years (with moderate temperature increases), with or without the help of atmospheric forcing. To say that the atmosphere is the single biggest factor in climate change, and that man is the single biggest factor in climate change, to me that defies all logic, plus the accumulated knowledge on the subject.

Also, it seems that human civilization does best in interglacial periods.
DM Schwartz





Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 45
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch it, socialists that solely use the right side of their brain will call you every name in the book, from denier, to flat-world society member, to oil company hack.

The UN IPCC can't even prove causality of CO2 - temperature increase. they can merely show correlation and they ignore anything that isn't antropogenic.

http://kitchenerconservative.b.....ality.html

Climate science has been hijacked by activists, socialists, and people with a economic stake in perpetuating antropogenic global warming.

http://kitchenerconservative.b.....-ipcc.html

People that use logic have to be diligent in expressing what the truth is. That is what we know and what we don't know.
Craig
Site Admin




Joined: 29 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kwlafayette:

Can you provide links? I was always under the impression that we were headed towards an iceage but were still several thousand years away.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said, I started at wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

After that I went with the sources for that article, and some other searches. A lot of people seem to think that there have to be glaciers covering Sask for there to be an ice age. As I read it though, an ice age begins when a polar ice cap forms, and it ends when there are no polar ice caps. When the continents move into a position that blocks the flow of heat from the equator to the polls, that is when an ice age starts. When ocean currents are unimpeded in their flow from the equator to the polls, there are no ice caps, and the entire world exists in a warm state. Apparently this warm state has been far more common during the past billions of years.

http://www.globalchange.umich......_patterns/

We have not yet reached the peak temperature of the interglacial period before this current one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.....lacial_era

Basically, just as winter is not over just because there is one nice day in January, so it is with ice ages. We are living in a moderate lull within an ice age. If we lived for several hundred thousand or a few million years, we would see repeated cycles of more severe and more moderate periods within this ice age. Maybe even long enough to see the continents move and the ice age end.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting and probable - so much for their science of the matter...
TealTories





Joined: 26 Oct 2006
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Location: Calgary

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope cant be!! you are wrong!!
David Suzuki said it was my SUV
Nice try though :wink:
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried watching David Suzuki the other day, he was on the weather network. It was so hard, I had to stop. He was talking about how birds are changing their migration patterns, and polar bears and seals and such. The earth has always been a tough place, species either adapt to changing conditions or they die. Never once did he acknowledge this point. It is the same for man. If there is going to me more severe weather, advancing ice sheets, higher oceans, whatever, we either have to find a way to live with that, or we die. Trying to change the weather, or trying to freeze the climate so it is always the same as today, that does not sound like a survival strategy to me. At least not a very good one.
Azimech





Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are stuck in a long-running ice age. And one of the main reasons is the current location of Antarctica. As long as the southern pole is covered by a light-deflecting, temperature-lowering continent of snow, we are likely to remain in a global ice age.

Far from being a threat, human-induced global warming might move our planet in a positive direction, closer to its warmer and biologically more productive norm.
Sheldon Moore





Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Reputation: 12
Location: Northern British Columbia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Canadian solution to global warming...Red Green duct tapes David Suzuki's mouth( and all other Cataclysm chicken little types) to prevent foul emissions and save money and electricity from less CBC propaganda claiming these people are someone to listen too. :wink:
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another reason Azimech, is that the arctic ocean in the North is almost entirely land locked. This prevents the efficient flow of heat, via ocean currents, from the equator to the pole. The Antarctic continent blocks the same flow on the pole. If heat is allowed to flow unimpeded from the equator to both poles, we have no ice caps and no ice age.
Azimech





Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 75
Reputation: 10

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several months ago Scientific American had an excellent article on human-induced climate change. The article suggested that humans have been contributing to global warming for several thousand years, ever since we began cutting down forests and burning fuels. Far from this process undermining the planet, the scientists argued that human-induced warming has postponed the onset of an already overdue period of glaciation.

Thus there is a good deal of opportunism and dishonesty in the shift from the 1970s warnings of a coming ice age to the modern day warnings of global warming. The scientific community who warned of the ice age is now refusing to acknowledge that human-induced climate change could be a valuable corrective to the initial threat.
Len





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Location: Winnipeg

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There also seems to be an interesting correlation between climate change and solar flare activity.
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