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Cool Blue





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper was voted PM on a campaign that included a "Made in Canada plan", not Kyoto, so what is so surprising about this letter?

FYI: I'm happy to see that the CTV politics blog reprinted the whole letter. If people read the whole letter, they'd probably agree with Harper because it sets out exactly why Kyoto is a bad idea.
don muntean





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggie rection wrote:
I think the communications strategy should be to point out that Kyoto is not going to work, that we are committed to it so we will do our best to fulfill our commitment, but we need to make Canadian-made solutions focussing on innovation. He should point out that just because you disagree with kyoto, doesn't mean that you disagree with working on the environment file. In fact, he could go as far as to say that Canada doesn't believe Kyoto goes far enough, and his government is going to take REAL action on environment, and keep our Canadian money in Canada for environmental reform.


That's a perfect pitch if I ever heard one - well stated.
Duck Tory





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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHich is why Canada should follow the US and set their own guidelines.
cosmostein





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duck Tory wrote:
WHich is why Canada should follow the US and set their own guidelines.


The US, and Australia
Blue Meanie





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: Just to Add Some Backgound Reply with quote

Found this posted on another forum. I don't know which paper its from, probably in Eastern Canada though. Enjoy!

January 21, 2007

Big industry polluters cash in on credits; schools, hospitals, get hosed
A green scheme
By LORRIE GOLDSTEIN

Today let's examine what the Kyoto accord's promoters -- including Liberal leader Stephane Dion -- argue is the major capitalist tool by which industries will be compelled to reduce greenhouse gases.
And better yet, to turn a profit while saving the world from global warming. It's the so-called carbon emissions trading market, envisioned by the Kyoto accord.
Or, as it's known in Europe where it's been operating for two years, the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS). Yes, you read that right. Scheme.
A Canadian version of the ETS, Dion argues, will force our industries to go green while allowing Canadians to make, as he puts it, "megatonnes of money" by cutting "megatonnes of emissions."
It's also, according to the European Union which runs the ETS, the major tool by which its members will reach their Kyoto targets for reducing carbon dioxide emissions.

Here's what's happened so far in the two years the ETS has been up and running.

- There's been "megatonnes" of profits, all right, mainly pocketed by some of Europe's largest energy companies -- the biggest emitters of greenhouse gases.
- The spot wholesale price of electricity in some jurisdictions, which will eventually be passed on to consumers, has jumped by up to 66%.
- The ETS has created an instant new industry of carbon trading consultants, brokers and speculators, many making big profits.
- By contrast, some hospitals and schools have been forced to spend millions buying emission credits, instead of hiring nurses and teachers.
- While ETS supporters argue overall greenhouse gas emissions will go down, all that's gone down so far are projections of future emissions. Real emissions are up.

- Almost half of the EU nations (12 of 25) are in danger of exceeding their Kyoto targets, including three of the five countries with the biggest economies in Europe -- Germany, Italy and Spain.

What went wrong? When the EU created the ETS -- where 12,000 firms which emit carbon dioxide gas buy and sell permits allowing them to do so -- several big mistakes were made.
First, these companies were given the permits for free, the equivalent of creating a new stock market and giving everybody in it free stock.
Second, most EU governments were too generous in handing out permits, meaning they gave out too many in light of their Kyoto emission targets.

EASY PROFITS

Third, many of the big industries, realizing these permits were basically free money, overestimated the amount of carbon dioxide they would emit (by up to 80%), lobbied their governments hard for these permits, got them, and then sold the extra permits for easy profits to other firms, who weren't as quick on the draw, or whose governments hadn't been as naive in handing out the permits in the first place.

Because too many permits were issued, their price has fallen so low at times that it's been cheaper for firms to buy more permits, rather than cut emissions, invest in new technologies to reduce them, or pay ETS-imposed fines.

Among big ETS losers were 150 publicly-run schools, universities, hospitals, military bases and prisons, sucked into the scheme due to the size of their boilers or power stations. Unlike the private sector, they didn't get enough free permits to start and thus had to buy them, even though they are bit players compared to the big energy firms that have made huge profits.

Despite these problems, which ETS supporters dismiss as growing pains, even its critics concede it's here to stay.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said he opposes trading carbon credits internationally, although the Tories have certainly studied the idea. Plus, it's hard to see how we could avoid participating if we stick with the Kyoto accord.

But as for its effectiveness in cutting greenhouse gases to date? The last word goes to William Blyth, director of Oxford Energy Associates in England, who dryly observed to Bloomberg News: "I don't suppose the environment has noticed the European emissions trading scheme."

Glenn
Azimech





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have many reservations about this issue. First, is global climate change taking place? I would say yes. However I consider this a no-brainer, since the Earth's climate is always changing. The climate has been in a state of change continually for five billion years, long before greedy white Republicans started buying SUVs. Second, if the climate is changing, is the cause human activity? I don't think this has been proven. Third, even if warming is taking place and the cause is human, will climate change help or hurt humanity in the long run? From a historical perspective, the Earth remains deep in an ice age. Will warming the Earth up bring tragedy, or in fact will we mostly benefit from a warmer Earth? In my opinion the media presentation of the issue has been sensational and one-sided. We are always told the downsides of climate change, and little or no information is provided on the benefits. It seems as if the media is more interested in creating headlines than investigating science.

Fourth, even if we assume that global climate change is bad (and that is a huge if), we still have to ask whether Kyoto will make any difference. I am highly skeptical that a big government, UN-organized redistribution scheme will achieve any significant change in emissions. It's more likely to turn into an oil-for-food debacle. UN cronies will get rich. Chinese Commies will pocket millions. And the ordinary Joe who works in Western Canada will suffer higher taxes and fewer jobs.
Blue Meanie





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azimech wrote:
I have many reservations about this issue. First, is global climate change taking place? I would say yes. However I consider this a no-brainer, since the Earth's climate is always changing. The climate has been in a state of change continually for five billion years, long before greedy white Republicans started buying SUVs. Second, if the climate is changing, is the cause human activity? I don't think this has been proven. Third, even if warming is taking place and the cause is human, will climate change help or hurt humanity in the long run? From a historical perspective, the Earth remains deep in an ice age. Will warming the Earth up bring tragedy, or in fact will we mostly benefit from a warmer Earth? In my opinion the media presentation of the issue has been sensational and one-sided. We are always told the downsides of climate change, and little or no information is provided on the benefits. It seems as if the media is more interested in creating headlines than investigating science.

Fourth, even if we assume that global climate change is bad (and that is a huge if), we still have to ask whether Kyoto will make any difference. I am highly skeptical that a big government, UN-organized redistribution scheme will achieve any significant change in emissions. It's more likely to turn into an oil-for-food debacle. UN cronies will get rich. Chinese Commies will pocket millions. And the ordinary Joe who works in Western Canada will suffer higher taxes and fewer jobs.


Exactly!!
Glenn
Duck Tory





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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason why Global Climate Change is taking place is it is masking the Real Offenders for screwing up Earth. Namely China and India along with Nations that don't give a damn bout Enviroment. the US saw threw this smokescreen and so did Canada and the Aussies.
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Harper's letter dismisses Kyoto as 'socialist scheme'

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