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kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Delagate conventions Reply with quote

If you want an example of what is wrong with them, here it is.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....hub=Canada

Quote:
"Muslim delegates at the convention are not a herd of cattle for sale to the highest bidder," Muslim Canadian Congress vice-president Salma Siddiqui said in a release.

Siddiqui, a supporter of frontrunner Michael Ignatieff, accused Mohamed Elmasry, head of the Canadian Islamic Congress, of trying to bargain with leadership candidates on behalf of some 200 to 300 Muslim delegates.


Looks like delegates can be bought by the highest bidder. A lot harder to do with a significant portion of the entire membership. I hate to say it, but maybe Belinda was right on this one.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...Tarek Fatah, a Rae supporter and member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, said appeals to "tribalism" went well beyond the Muslim delegates. He said Kennedy, despite his claim to represent party renewal, was the candidate who benefited most from the support of Muslim, Sikh, Ukrainian and Tamil blocs, who moved en masse to Dion after the second ballot.

"This is a step back," Fatah said in an interview, adding that Kennedy has "taken us back to the '30s and '40s" when Catholics and Protestants voted in blocs.
Blue Meanie





Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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Location: B.C.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CTV article you linked is very interesting. But there's much more of a story there than what you've indicated. I think the real story is the blatant anti-semitism and racism exhibited within the Liberal Party, and right at their convention! Well, I guess I'm not really surprised, just another example of Liberal hypocrisy.
Glenn
vancouver_conservative





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Journalists like delegated conventions as they get to go on a big expense claim, get drunked up for free and have everyone treat them as if they're important.

The reform of this process is one of the best legacies Preston left conservatives with.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 3360
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votes: 17
Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always seen them as a massive waste of resources - I don't buy the 'earned media' line you get from the proponents, either.
biggie





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Delagate conventions Reply with quote

kwlafayette wrote:
If you want an example of what is wrong with them, here it is.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....hub=Canada

Quote:
"Muslim delegates at the convention are not a herd of cattle for sale to the highest bidder," Muslim Canadian Congress vice-president Salma Siddiqui said in a release.

Siddiqui, a supporter of frontrunner Michael Ignatieff, accused Mohamed Elmasry, head of the Canadian Islamic Congress, of trying to bargain with leadership candidates on behalf of some 200 to 300 Muslim delegates.


Looks like delegates can be bought by the highest bidder. A lot harder to do with a significant portion of the entire membership. I hate to say it, but maybe Belinda was right on this one.


True, but consider the Alberta PC leadership, and all the Liberals who bought memberships in order to influence the vote... Thankfully Dinning didn't get in.
FascistLibertarian





Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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votes: 14
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wikipedia:
The CIC claims a membership of 50,000 Muslims, the MCC a membership of 100.

Being Muslim is about all these organizations have in common, they are very different
The MCC is fairly liberal and mainstream
http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/index.html
the CIC, despite having many more members, is way more radical
http://www.canadianislamiccongress.com/
Some of the stuff CIC members said during the summer war was pretty bad
SFrank85





Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is why I am happy that the Conservative party did not go down this route. I really like the OMOV system that the Conservatives have.

The Liberals... Well they are the Liberals.
Stephen





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMOV is more representative of a party's base. Delegated conventions attract the activist sub-base of the party and can steer it away from what the actual membership believes.
SFrank85





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Location: Toronto - Scarborough Southwest

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet the Liberals are regretting this one eh? :wink:
Cameron





Joined: 06 Sep 2006
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Location: North Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly OMOV beats the delegated convention; however, I still believe that a party's parliamentary leader ought to be chosen by its MP's.

Until recently, the British Conservative party used to do this. IIRC, the MP's still get to have the first few ballots until the final two candidates are determined.

In a "responsible government" system, this is really the best way to pick a leader, as the leader/government is responsible to the House. It puts power in the hands of the MP's. After all, they are the ones who most directly bear the risk of a bad leadership choice. In addition, presently, each party leader has, as a club to weild over their MP's, the fact that they were "elected" by (either) the members at large or their delegates.

Perhaps, however, it would be best to have a "primary" system in which all registered voters (who also happen to have to be citizens - unlike the rules for party membership) first select the party nominees. Then the nominees select their leader from amongst themselves. Unlikely to happen, though, as it is a bit too cumbersome.
McGuire





Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 369
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Location: Soviet Pictouwestistan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delegated conventions may make for good theatre, but bad democracy. OMOV is far superior, if less entertaining.
FF_Canuck





Joined: 02 Sep 2006
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Location: Southern Alberta

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to keep voting for the party leader on OMOV - I think it encourages citizen participation, and party ownership.
kwlafayette





Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I wonder if Liberals are ready yet to start picking their leaders in a modern, and less prone to failure method than delegate conventions?

http://www.ottawasun.com/News/.....0-sun.html
TealTories





Joined: 26 Oct 2006
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Location: Calgary

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FF_Canuck wrote:
I'd like to keep voting for the party leader on OMOV - I think it encourages citizen participation, and party ownership.


Agreed
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